Police stared started

[Austin Ellen]

Actually, I agree - we are all concerned about our nation's safety. I disagree about how this ban can have a reverse effect. It was too easy for the 911 killers to get into this country and attack us on our soil. I don't see how it would be easier for them now-with the ban in place- to recruit new members to attack us at this kind of level again. How would it be easier to recruit new members?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Crunch

This type of refuge ban can easily have the reverse effect, actually making it MORE likely a catastrophic attack takes place against our country. Suddenly, it is easier for ISIS and Al Qaeda to recruit new members. If you are truly concerned about our country's safety, as I am sure we all are, it would be prudent to take a more complex view of the situation.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

How would it be easier to recruit new members?

ISIS and Al Qaeda are using this to portray Americans as hating Muslims and persecuting the religion. Even though their ideology has nothing to do with Islam, they pray on simple thinking people who are easily manipulated by propaganda. (that happens in USA and around the world).

The more they recruit, the longer and harder the fight in Syria, Iraq and other parts of the world. Such brazen action can encourage people within the US to feel alienated and become radicalized. Even if the intent is not so, it is too easy to be seen as an anti-Muslim action.

It IS a complex issue. Sadly, I have low expectations that some people will ever understand. However, I still hope people will pause to understand the real and potential consequences.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Listen, I don't say this because I am a liberal or conservative or independent or anything. These are not political talking points. Plenty of knowledgable people with different political views than mine would agree with me wholeheartedly. This is well thought out rationale, intended to keep our country "safer." We can never guarantee safety; all we can do is try to find the best balance we can in this free society.

[Groovy Johnson]

The 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.
Not included in the ban.

[Guest010218]

Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

I think this says it all

Nope. None of the 9/11 Hijacker/Terrorists were from any of the countries listed in Trump's ban. They were from Saudi Arabia and two other countries where Trump has significant business dealings and which were not included in the ban for political purposes.

This is a Muslim Ban, wrapped up with a lot of ribbon to sell it to people who don't look below the surface. You can put all the lipstick you want on a pig and try to sell it, but it is still just a pig.

Grrrrrrrrrr

[Austin Ellen]

You do have a point. And true Islam is a peaceful entity. It's radical Islamic's who hate us and think we are the infidel's and we need to be wiped off the face of the earth.
My example goes like this - having been in property management - I had a property that was having a lot of crime - hate crime,stealing,ect. So the owner hired security guards - well, it worked for a bit but than they would just wait till the guards were on break or out of site - and do it again. So than he got high powered security lights - they just broke them out. Next came electronic gates - again, worked for a little bit but they tore those up too. Next came alarm systems in the units - worked for a while and than they just said- screw it-broke the windows and took what they wanted in under 1 minute.
My point is - if someone hates you and your way of life and has no respect for person or private property - if their motivation's are high enough - than they will be able to do it. Now this little property did not have alot of money to put into high end security but the US does. What we have to is make it very hard for the criminal element to enter our country. Now I don't care what nationality or creed or color - if they want to kill Americans that they nee to be dealt with. And we have to have some time to get a handle on it and protect ourselves.
The wife of the San Bernardo killer came in to the US - got her papers but nobody checked her whole application out properly. -- that has got to be corrected and that takes time.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Crunch

ISIS and Al Qaeda are using this to portray Americans as hating Muslims and persecuting the religion. Even though their ideology has nothing to do with Islam, they pray on simple thinking people who are easily manipulated by propaganda. (that happens in USA and around the world).

The more they recruit, the longer and harder the fight in Syria, Iraq and other parts of the world. Such brazen action can encourage people within the US to feel alienated and become radicalized. Even if the intent is not so, it is too easy to be seen as an anti-Muslim action.

It IS a complex issue. Sadly, I have low expectations that some people will ever understand. However, I still hope people will pause to understand the real and potential consequences.

[Austin Ellen]

BB, they were Al Qedea.

Grrrrrrr

[Yssup Rider]

First of all, Professor, wtf is "Al Qedea," a new Tyler Perry character? I know that's a chickenshit point to make, but you were the one who made a big deal out of slamming another poster for spelling (though spelling wasn't the error, Professor), and now you need to own every single spelling error you make until you apologize.

Second of all, Twitler targeted COUNTRIES, and none of the 9/11 hijackers were from the COUNTRIES he targeted, but instead were from COUNTRIES he does business with and were not surprisingly excluded from his kommand.

[Jeffrey Spaulding]

Wait 6 month to a year. You will all be singing a different tune. Yes trump sees thing simple, that is his problem. Oh btw why was Saudi left off the list. Interesrtinbg fact no Muslim countries where trump has businesses are on the list, yes that includes saudi

[Cap'n Crunch]

Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

My point is - if someone hates you and your way of life and has no respect for person or private property - if their motivation's are high enough - than they will be able to do it.

What you said, in the part I quoted, is correct. So we don't want to give these extremists additional fuel to burn their hatred. We don't want to give these extremists fuel to spread believable propaganda. We don't want to give regular law abiding muslims a reason to distrust our country's intentions.

Sure, you may have closed the doors to immigration, but in doing so you've also created an environment that fosters homegrown terrorists. We are giving simpleminded, propaganda-gullible US residents reasons to radicalize. Far more harm than good will come of this.

[veedub63]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Crunch

What you said, in the part I quoted, is correct. So we don't want to give these extremists additional fuel to burn their hatred. We don't want to give these extremists fuel to spread believable propaganda. We don't want to give regular law abiding muslims a reason to distrust our country's intentions.

Sure, you may have closed the doors to immigration, but in doing so you've also created an environment that fosters homegrown terrorists. We are giving simpleminded, propaganda-gullible US residents reasons to radicalize. Far more harm than good will come of this.

At least you got one thing right (see emphasis above). ISIS and islamic radicals will most certainly suffer the harm to follow. It will be great if this most superior executive order causes more of the cockroaches to sneak out from under the rug! Just more bodies to add to the pile. Smoke all of those fuckers out. Give them all the fuel they need to burn their hatred. Sitting around waiting for the next attack is for lazy pussies. I'm happy that the USA is finally taking the fight to those idiots.

[Youd-never-know]

Did you teach your students the difference between creditibility and credibility? The irony of posting something about 9/11 on this thread.

[Youd-never-know]

Wahabists are the problem, they are created, funded, and supported almost entirely by our Saudi "allies" alone

[EagleEye]

Originally Posted by veedub63

Sitting around waiting for the next attack is for lazy pussies. I'm happy that the USA is finally taking the fight to those idiots.

Where have you been during the last couple of Administrations? We have spent $1.5TR+ on wars in the ME. We have been dropping ordnance for several years on AQ and ISIS. We have had (and continue to have) SpecOps in several countries there performing kill and intel recovery. We are spending $15B+ on terrorism counter intel per year.

Those are all indicators of taking the fight to the idiots. There have been many American service personnel and intel personnel who have given their lives in that fight. How does the Trump Admin's EO "finally" start taking the fight to the idiots? It is an insult to their efforts.

Is there a chance bad guys can bypass our intel / counterops and successfully attack us? Sure, especially lone wolfs. But your claim that we are sitting on our asses is specious at best, and insulting our warriors at worst.

[veedub63]

Get off your high horse. Obama and his faggot regime were funding ISIS by and large through Saudi channels. Hillary Clinton was directly involved in moving arms from Libya into Syria for those fucking cockroaches. That is the proximate cause of Ambassador Stevens death - Hillary knew the lid would be blown off of her arms dealings if she sent the cavalry to save his ass.

I don't disagree that the USA spent tons of $$ on wars in the ME. The USA made the monumental mistake of leaving Iraq (Obama) and thereby allowed Saddam Hussein's army-in-hiding to evolve into ISIS.

You think the US Military is unaware of the treachery and disrespect leveled at them via the Obama administration? Yes, the Obama administration sat on their fucking hands while the ME fell apart; even going so far as to intentionally provide arms to ISIS fighters in an attempt to overthrow the Syrian government. Indeed, that information is quite insulting to our warriors.

Originally Posted by EagleEye

Where have you been during the last couple of Administrations? We have spent $1.5TR+ on wars in the ME. We have been dropping ordnance for several years on AQ and ISIS. We have had (and continue to have) SpecOps in several countries there performing kill and intel recovery. We are spending $15B+ on terrorism counter intel per year.

Those are all indicators of taking the fight to the idiots. There have been many American service personnel and intel personnel who have given their lives in that fight. How does the Trump Admin's EO "finally" start taking the fight to the idiots? It is an insult to their efforts.

Is there a chance bad guys can bypass our intel / counterops and successfully attack us? Sure, especially lone wolfs. But your claim that we are sitting on our asses is specious at best, and insulting our warriors at worst.