False Flag Gov't Schemes for Gun control:

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

How does it feel to be hoist on your own petard? "Gun Violence" is the catch phrase and what do each of those proposals have to do with violence? Next to nothing really. They have to do with ownership. Background checks? First, there are background check on both gun show and internet purchases. Anyone who tells you different is lying to you. What do background check have to do with violence? Criminals (you know, bad guys) don't do background checks.
Mental health and half a billion dollars...it's not money, it's liberal laws on privacy that are going to get in the way. For instance, Obama could just order the hospitals that are tied into Obamacare to give up the information about mental illness, but that would run counter to the liberal orthodoxy of privacy.
Obey existing guns laws? Remember Fast and Furious? The White House had better start obeying the laws already on the books before they go after anyone.
Technology? Once again, criminals don't care and I don't want some cut rate computer chip second guessing my need to use lethal force in an extreme situation.

The links provided are there to disprove Jim's statement that the only goal of the government regarding guns is a total banning of them.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Here is a summary of actions being proposed by the administration to curb gun violence dated January 4, 2016. Notice that NONE of the proposals speak to further gun bans.

The second link is what I believe to be an unbiased fact check on the proposals.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...e-and-make-our

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/01/sor...-gun-proposal/

Those articles sound great don't they? This country already has over a hundred Gun Laws on the books. It's all about the Law. I agree, Criminals shouldn't have guns, but they get them without going through any scrutiny. Criminals don't buy guns in stores or Gun shows.That's how you and I would get a gun. Criminals on the other hand steal them or buy them from another criminal. You're listening to these jerkoff politicians telling you how they are going to curb violence and it's really a joke. They aren't affecting any decision that would be made by a Criminal only those that are non-criminals. For example the ridiculous tax Clinton has proposed she would implement for the purchase of Firearms. That would make it harder for a law abiding citizen to buy them, but it doesn't make it any harder for a criminal to steal them. So most gun laws, gun restrictions ect will affect the average person who has no criminal past or felony convictions.

Jim

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

The links provided are there to disprove Jim's statement that the only goal of the government regarding guns is a total banning of them.

Your links don't disprove anything. Do you really think the Government is going to just come out and say, "They are banning guns"? They are not going to do that. They have to change the culture of Firearm ownership which has been accepted for decades. One way they have done this is by heightening public awareness of gun violence by staging shootings. Not all the mass shootings the media has presented to us are legit. That's why I posted the Police shooting, so all can see what a real shooting looks like and the emotions it produces. Should the media show us crime scene footage of mass shootings? Yes they should, but they won't because they don't have any. The media has an uncanny ability to control how people think. Don't be fooled.

Jim

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

Your links don't disprove anything. Do you really think the Government is going to just come out and say, "They are banning guns"? They are not going to do that. They have to change the culture of Firearm ownership which has been accepted for decades. One way they have done this is by heightening public awareness of gun violence by staging shootings. Not all the mass shootings the media has presented to us are legit. That's why I posted the Police shooting, so all can see what a real shooting looks like and the emotions it produces. Should the media show us crime scene footage of mass shootings? Yes they should, but they won't because they don't have any. The media has an uncanny ability to control how people think. Don't be fooled.

Jim

How many new national gun laws have been passed in the last 8 years?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

Your links don't disprove anything. Do you really think the Government is going to just come out and say, "They are banning guns"? They are not going to do that. They have to change the culture of Firearm ownership which has been accepted for decades. One way they have done this is by heightening public awareness of gun violence by staging shootings. Not all the mass shootings the media has presented to us are legit. That's why I posted the Police shooting, so all can see what a real shooting looks like and the emotions it produces. Should the media show us crime scene footage of mass shootings? Yes they should, but they won't because they don't have any. The media has an uncanny ability to control how people think. Don't be fooled.

Jim

You have totally missed the point of the links. Your statement was very clear -- the government simply wants to ban guns and that is its only solution to gun violence. The links show that the government is focusing on other solutions to the gun violence problems in the U.S. Whether or not you agree with the proposed solutions is a different issue.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

You have totally missed the point of the links. Your statement was very clear -- the government simply wants to ban guns and that is its only solution to gun violence. The links show that the government is focusing on other solutions to the gun violence problems in the U.S. Whether or not you agree with the proposed solutions is a different issue.

Don't expect the so called comprehensive gun control laws proposed by the Obama administration to have much real world impact on the frequency of gun violence.


Jim

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

Don't expect the so called comprehensive gun control laws proposed by the Obama administration to have much real world impact on the frequency of gun violence.


Jim

Should we sit back and do nothing? Approximately 8500 gun homicides per year in the U.S. In comparing gun homicides per capita, very few countries in the world are worse than the U.S. (Link 1). I don't care if you are Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican or other, you should understand that we have a gun-related homicide problem in this country and any plausible attempt to correct that problem should be looked at.

I also included Link 2 which I found interesting.

http://www.humanosphere.org/science/...-s-rest-world/

https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-...oped-countries

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Should we sit back and do nothing? Approximately 8500 gun homicides per year in the U.S. In comparing gun homicides per capita, very few countries in the world are worse than the U.S. (Link 1). I don't care if you are Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican or other, you should understand that we have a gun-related homicide problem in this country and any plausible attempt to correct that problem should be looked at.

I also included Link 2 which I found interesting.

http://www.humanosphere.org/science/...-s-rest-world/

https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-...oped-countries

Why not deal with the root of the problem, speedy: the criminals -- not inanimate objects.

"National Crime Information Center reports that nearly 200,000 guns were reported lost or stolen in 2012, according to federal data," speedy. What's your lib-retard plan for closing that "loophole", speedy? Would your lib-retard solution involve passing more laws that somehow make burglary and theft more illegal than they already are, speedy?

BTW, speedy, that Mises site kinda blows your POS argument based on cherry picked comparisons out of the water, doesn't it, speedy? You've been told before that the U.S. has a great deal more in common with Mexico than it does with Luxembourg or Japan, haven't you, speedy?

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Should we sit back and do nothing? Approximately 8500 gun homicides per year in the U.S. In comparing gun homicides per capita, very few countries in the world are worse than the U.S. (Link 1). I don't care if you are Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican or other, you should understand that we have a gun-related homicide problem in this country and any plausible attempt to correct that problem should be looked at.

I also included Link 2 which I found interesting.

http://www.humanosphere.org/science/...-s-rest-world/

https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-...oped-countries

I never said we should do nothing. We have many gun laws on the books. What you fail to recognize is no regulation, or the laws we currently have or any that we may enact in the future can totally prevent someone from pulling the trigger on a gun unlawfully, it's impossible. Besides the government doesn't care if you get shot. They aren't trying to prevent shootings, hell they stage the dam things to worry the shit out of the public so they will want to turn guns in to curb gun violence, it's absurd. Why would they stage a shooting, just to get public approval for universal background checks? I am afraid it goes much deeper than that.

Jim

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

How many new national gun laws have been passed in the last 8 years?

No answer jim?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Why not deal with the root of the problem, speedy: the criminals -- not inanimate objects.

"National Crime Information Center reports that nearly 200,000 guns were reported lost or stolen in 2012, according to federal data," speedy. What's your lib-retard plan for closing that "loophole", speedy? Would your lib-retard solution involve passing more laws that somehow make burglary and theft more illegal than they already are, speedy?

BTW, speedy, that Mises site kinda blows your POS argument based on cherry picked comparisons out of the water, doesn't it, speedy? You've been told before that the U.S. has a great deal more in common with Mexico than it does with Luxembourg or Japan, haven't you, speedy?

The Mises site is one way of looking at the data, and I cited it because I, for one, try to be fair to both sides of the argument. The first site mentioned is another way of looking at the data. Ever been to Mexico? Ever been to countries like Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy and other western European countries? I have, and the countries in Europe are, in my opinion, more similar in more ways to the U.S. than Mexico. The Mises site is ONE person's opinion and should not be taken as the truth, any more than the second site.

I realize that you are not very bright and remember only those statements of others that you choose to remember, but I've made myself very clear in the past -- you want to reduce crime significantly you must provide people with a quality education and prepare them for entering the workforce with skills. Easily said, hard to do.

What is YOUR solution to reducing the crime rate in the U.S.? Simply dismiss any proposed solution as usual? Or do you not think we have a crime problem in the U.S.? If you will re-read my statements, I have not said whether or not I agree or disagree with any of the administration's proposals.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

I never said we should do nothing. We have many gun laws on the books. What you fail to recognize is no regulation, or the laws we currently have or any that we may enact in the future can totally prevent someone from pulling the trigger on a gun unlawfully, it's impossible. Besides the government doesn't care if you get shot. They aren't trying to prevent shootings, hell they stage the dam things to worry the shit out of the public so they will want to turn guns in to curb gun violence, it's absurd. Why would they stage a shooting, just to get public approval for universal background checks? I am afraid it goes much deeper than that.

Jim

If you have any proof at all that any of the mass shootings in recent years were staged shootings to scare the public I, for one, would love to see it.

No, laws can't keep someone from pulling the trigger on a gun unlawfully, but they can hopefully keep the gun out of the hands of that person and by enacting laws with tough penalties for breaking those laws, hopefully make the would-be criminal think twice about breaking the law.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

The Mises site is one way of looking at the data, and I cited it because I, for one, try to be fair to both sides of the argument. The first site mentioned is another way of looking at the data. Ever been to Mexico? Ever been to countries like Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy and other western European countries? I have, and the countries in Europe are, in my opinion, more similar in more ways to the U.S. than Mexico. The Mises site is ONE person's opinion and should not be taken as the truth, any more than the second site.

I realize that you are not very bright and remember only those statements of others that you choose to remember, but I've made myself very clear in the past -- you want to reduce crime significantly you must provide people with a quality education and prepare them for entering the workforce with skills. Easily said, hard to do.

What is YOUR solution to reducing the crime rate in the U.S.? Simply dismiss any proposed solution as usual? Or do you not think we have a crime problem in the U.S.? If you will re-read my statements, I have not said whether or not I agree or disagree with any of the administration's proposals.

While you were in Germany, France and Italy, speedy, did you see many Mexicans ... or any other ethnic minority that comprised more than 10% of the total population, speedy? Point is, speedy, you can't argue that the U.S. can't be compared to Mexico when such a substantial number of Mexicans, and other Latin Americans, are in fact present in this country in ever increasing numbers, speedy. As for solution: enforce the laws that are already on the books, and punish the criminals who violate those laws, speedy ... including the immigration laws, speedy. Allowing the uncontrolled importation of poorly educated workers, as your lib-retard party does, directly contradicts what you say you stand for, speedy: an educated work force with decent paying jobs.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

If you have any proof at all that any of the mass shootings in recent years were staged shootings to scare the public I, for one, would love to see it.

No, laws can't keep someone from pulling the trigger on a gun unlawfully, but they can hopefully keep the gun out of the hands of that person and by enacting laws with tough penalties for breaking those laws, hopefully make the would-be criminal think twice about breaking the law.

Go back to my original thread and view the video of the Police shooting. Look at it carefully. Then view the scenes of the shootings that were highly publicized such as the WDBJ7 or the Walter Scott shooting and then honestly ask yourself if any of these victims in these shootings remotely exhibit the same degree of trauma.

Jim

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

While you were in Germany, France and Italy, speedy, did you see many Mexicans ... or any other ethnic minority that comprised more than 10% of the total population, speedy? Point is, speedy, you can't argue that the U.S. can't be compared to Mexico when such a substantial number of Mexicans, and other Latin Americans, are in fact present in this country in ever increasing numbers, speedy. As for solution: enforce the laws that are already on the books, and punish the criminals who violate those laws, speedy ... including the immigration laws, speedy. Allowing the uncontrolled importation of poorly educated workers, as your lib-retard party does, directly contradicts what you say you stand for, speedy: an educated work force with decent paying jobs.

And exactly how many people in Mexico are not of Mexican descent? Probably a very few, making Mexico very similar to western European countries and not at all like the U.S. which is made up of people originally from every other country in the world. That is why your argument that the U.S. and Mexico are similar falls apart.