Wikileaks Part Deuce

[I B Hankering]

Revolution is afoot in the streets of Cairo. What ever else is said—pro or con—Julian Assange and his defenders can no longer claim that Wikileaks have caused no deaths. It remains to be seen whether the leaks have contributed to the fall of a valuable U.S. ally in the region.

[discreetgent]

It is quite a stretch to assign what is happening in Egypt to Wikileaks, certainly to Wikileaks alone. Tunisia is a far more relevant event, and while there were cables related to it again it is a stretch to put it all on Wikileaks or any one factor.

Second, we have no idea what a different government in Egypt might look like. It could still be a strong US ally.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

It is quite a stretch to assign what is happening in Egypt to Wikileaks, certainly to Wikileaks alone. Tunisia is a far more relevant event, and while there were cables related to it again it is a stretch to put it all on Wikileaks or any one factor.

Second, we have no idea what a different government in Egypt might look like. It could still be a strong US ally.

I did use the words "contributed" and "remains to be seen" as a qualifiers.

[guest010313]

I think that you should educate yourself a little more fully with regards to the current president of Egypt before you start pointing fingers anywhere.

This is a good place to start
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosni_Mubarak

Here is another.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptia...election,_2005

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

I did use the words "contributed" and "remains to be seen" as a qualifiers.

You did, my bad on contributed.

As far as "remains to be seen" my statement has to do w.r.t whether a change would be bad for the US and I interpreted your statement that you thought a change would be negative.

Seems like we are in agreement for once

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SillyGirl

I think that you should educate yourself a little more fully with regards to the current president of Egypt before you start pointing fingers anywhere.

This is a good place to start
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosni_Mubarak

Here is another.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptia...election,_2005

Without reading, I know Mubarak has been a real "saint!" Yet, he's been our "saint." Sometimes its better the devil you know than the one you do not know. For the record, let me again repeat: I did use the word "contributed" as a qualifier.

[Bebe Le Strange]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Revolution is afoot in the streets of Cairo. What ever else is said—pro or con—Julian Assange and his defenders can no longer claim that Wikileaks have caused no deaths. It remains to be seen whether the leaks have contributed to the fall of a valuable U.S. ally in the region.

Wow, that is quite a claim.

By the way did you see the news about Egypt's Mubarak regime shutting down Internet and cell phone communications before launching a violent crackdown against protesters. An American company — Boeing-owned Narus of Sunnyvale, Calif. sold Egypt "Deep Packet Inspection" (DPI) equipment that can be used by the regime to track, target and crush political dissent over the Internet and mobile phones.

The Egyptian security forces arrested leading opposition figures for speaking out online.

[I B Hankering]

[quote=Bebe Le Strange;975286]Wow, that is quite a claim. [quote]



Just because Mubarak is also culpable doesn’t make my statement any less true.

[NinaBrooke]

I think what Julian Assange and his team did was great. It has been very interesting to know (what everyone knew anyway) that my country - a neutral country (Austria) - sells weapons to iran. Hello?? Said rifles were so called Panzer - killer which meant they were able to destroy the things that roll on the floor and are of metal. they cut just thru. A neutral country - especially one that has been freed from being overtaken by the russians with certain conditions (they have to support the USA) should not sell weapons at all.-
Other than that i think austria is great, but the neutrality is a bit hogwash. That said i also do not really understand how it is possible that SWitzerland, alos neutral, assists the USA in their warfare in Irak and afghanistan. I frequently work in switzerland and so i know. Usually a neutral country is not allowed to assist in any warfare. that means also letting americans tank up for their afghan or irak missions and provide them with tools. Ah politics all corrupt. Its all hogwash and BS. sorry to say.

[Bebe Le Strange]

Originally Posted by ninasastri

I think what Julian Assange and his team did was great. It has been very interesting to know (what everyone knew anyway) that my country - a neutral country (Austria) - sells weapons to iran. Hello?? Said rifles were so called Panzer - killer which meant they were able to destroy the things that roll on the floor and are of metal. they cut just thru. A neutral country - especially one that has been freed from being overtaken by the russians with certain conditions (they have to support the USA) should not sell weapons at all.-
Other than that i think austria is great, but the neutrality is a bit hogwash.

Well maybe I am naive however, I personally feel that Julian Assange has done something good by exposing secrets that powerful officials want to keep secret, and for not so good intentions. I see wiki as a sort of checks and balances on the powers that be that we might not otherwise have in this country. With the internet comes free access to information and on bad government behavior.

The people who are most opposed to this site are the ones who don't want the dirty secrets to come out. Our government hides way to much from us as it is.

Secrecy breeds corruption and does little but foster suspicion from the whole world.

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by Bebe Le Strange

I see wiki as a sort of checks and balances on the powers that be that we might not otherwise have in this country. With the internet comes free access to information and on bad government behavior.

The people who are most opposed to this site are the ones who don't want the dirty secrets to come out. Our government hides way to much from us as it is.

Secrecy breeds corruption and does little but foster suspicion from the whole world.

We already have a set of checks and balances that has been in place for over 200 years, we don't need the internet and attention grabbing Assange doing it for us. There's a fine line between making politicians weekend expenditures transparent and putting confidential military information online that may endanger US lives. Personally I don't think the general public is ready to handle complete transparency. Riots have started over basketball games do you really think it prudent to allow masses access to information never intended for their consumption? Information always comes at a price.

[Bebe Le Strange]

By the way, just finished watching the National News. This has nothing to do with wiki. The people and protestors interviewed said they want change in their country, that they are tired of the old 30 year regime that has existed. In addition to the human rights violations that have occurred. They were being gassed and shot at with pellets and some of the protestors are upset with the US because they showed the reporters the weapons used against them thus far are all supplied by the US. These people have a right to protest, and even Obama has said as such. It will be interesting to see if they get shot with real bullets.

The only danger that comes from this, is the possible instability that will occur if they succeed. Egypt has helped us with our terrorism efforts. We will have to wait and see how things turn out. If the people prevail, then we need to offer support and open dialogue immediately.

[Bebe Le Strange]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

We already have a set of checks and balances that has been in place for over 200 years, we don't need the internet and attention grabbing Assange doing it for us.

I think it is naive of you to think we have real checks and balances with our government. Not in the way you would like to think. It is far too large and too much corruption already exists within it.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Bebe Le Strange

By the way, just finished watching the National News. This has nothing to do with wiki. The people and protestors interviewed said they want change in their country, that they are tired of the old 30 year regime that has existed. In addition to the human rights violations that have occurred.

You are joining the show late. Sometimes the chattering class doesn’t repeat what they aired several days back, and the revolutions began a couple of weeks ago.

Egyptians fight riot police; 3 dead

Published: January 26, 2011
Hamza Hendawi | Associated Press

CAIRO – Tens of thousands of anti-government protesters inspired by Tunisia’s uprising staged the biggest demonstrations in Egypt in years, facing down riot police who beat them with batons and fired water cannons in clashes that left at least three dead.

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20110126/NEWS04/301269960/-1/NEWS0


The First WikiLeaks Revolution?

Posted By Elizabeth Dickinson
Thursday, January 13, 2011

Tunisians didn't need any more reasons to protest when they took to the streets these past weeks -- food prices were rising, corruption was rampant, and unemployment was staggering. But we might also count Tunisia as the first time that WikiLeaks pushed people over the brink.

http://wikileaks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/01/13/wikileaks_and_the_tunisia_prot ests

IMO this resembles that much discounted “Domino Theory” of regime change in unstable geo-political zones.

Originally Posted by Bebe Le Strange

I think it is naive of you to think we have real checks and balances with our government. Not in the way you would like to think. It is far too large and too much corruption already exists within it.

Now you are going to argue that a Mubarak or a Gadhafi are going to offer more viable alternatives?

[NinaBrooke]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Now you are going to argue that a Mubarak or a Gadhafi are going to offer more viable alternatives?

Hi IB, that is not the point. The lack of one system does not justify the lack within another one.
But - point made : I vote for Berlusconi - The guy at least knows how to have fun :-)) and what real politics is all about ..he he...