When you and a client *really* disagree

[atlcomedy]

Natalie,

How did your um, "friend" let the relationship evolve to this state? I mean I doubt things were all roses before and then one day the gent up and decided to start making these remarks you, er your "friend" finds unacceptable....

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Natalie, maybe what is going on here is that this is just this guy's "style" of argument -- i.e. making outrageous statements for effect. I've used the technique myself

Do you ever do anything else?

[rednecksatyr]

My .02$.. If the conversation offends and / or generates anger or displeasure for either party for whatever reason tell the person and gently ease her / him out of your life. If gentle doesnt work simply use the time proven "Go to Hell and stay away from me."

[Hugbuddy]

Originally Posted by rednecksatyr

My .02$.. If the conversation offends and / or generates anger or displeasure for either party for whatever reason tell the person and gently ease her / him out of your life. If gentle doesnt work simply use the time proven "Go to Hell and stay away from me."

+++++1
Exactly!! (unless of course ya just wanna act like schoolchildren!)

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Do you ever do anything else?

Yes. Believe it or not, I'm actually pretty good at getting people to agree. I just don't exercise those chops on message boards.

[London Rayne]

Not another Attorney lmao.

[Raphael]

It is impossible to put oneself in the shoes of someone one does not know; and a one paragraph op is not much to go on. But if this one difference of opinion over race is creating such tension (one party not wanting to hear the opinion, the other party not wanting to keep quiet about it), then it seems likely the arrangement between them is not as solid & satisfactory as either party may want to believe it is.

[Mr. Smith111]

Natalie,he's probably just trying to push your buttons because he's enjoying you being flustered. Maybe he wants a blowup from you and needs you to show him an extreme emotional outburst. In a twisted way that says to him you care.
I don't know either of you, so take it for what it's worth.

[Carrie Hillcrest]

Originally Posted by Natalie

However, her client has made comments that my friend finds offensive and racist. She would prefer to avoid those conversations and stick to topics on which, while they may not agree, they can have productive conversations. She expressed, politely, to her client, her discomfort with certain comments he has made. Offended, her client has since continued to push the issues and encourages her to respond to statements he knows she will find objectionable.

That is incredibly disrespectful and childish. He knows that the issue is important enough to you that you felt the need to tell him it made you upset and uncomfortable, but he continues to bring it up, hoping to get a rise out of you. When I was in fifth grade, we called that bullying. Most of us realized that was not acceptable behavior and outgrew that phase.

If I were you, I'd explain to him again -- through email perhaps, if emotions tend to get the better of either of you face to face -- how his behavior is making you feel. If, after you have given him a generous second chance to apologize and change his attitude, he persists in purposefully attempting to offend you... well, that's not the kind of relationship I'd want to continue to have with anyone, regardless of our history.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Carrie Hillcrest

If I were you, I'd explain to him again -- through email perhaps, if emotions tend to get the better of either of you face to face --.

I'm not a big fan of email for any type of important, "heart to heart" type discussion. It isn't that it is impersonal, simply that it is so difficult to convey context.

[Guest042611]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I don't think London's approaches work here, because this is an ongoing relationship that has moved past the "paid date" stage.

Natalie, maybe what is going on here is that this is just this guy's "style" of argument -- i.e. making outrageous statements for effect. I've used the technique myself, but usually laced with humor. If thats the case, play back at him in the same style, but reverse politics. If necessary, you can watch Keith Obermann for pointers. (But don't watch too much -- he can cause brain damage. )

Actually, I think it's his actual viewpoint that bothers me—uh, I mean, my friend. I think there are certain ideas, such as characterizing an entire ethnic group as violent, that are just wrong, no matter how eloquently you explain yourself. I feel that way about very few things, but racism is one of them.

I was riding a bus one time and saw a lesbian couple sitting across the aisle from me. They were being affectionate, but tasteful—holding hands, maybe giving a kiss on the cheek—nothing that would even draw a second glance if they were a straight couple. Anyway, a few minutes later, another woman came up to them and said she found their behavior completely disrespectful, explaining that there were children around. She expressed herself very politely, which in a way, made it all the more offensive. Like she really felt she was saying something decent and worthwhile, when it was just as injurious and inappropriate as screaming out "Dykes!" Keep in mind, this was in a suburb about 10 minutes outside of San Francisco, where I'm quite certain most kids who ride city buses are probably not afraid of lesbians.

So anyway, I'm not interested in hearing someone's racist and violent viewpoints even when expressed in the most articulate fashion. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I'm thankful we live in a country where even bigots aren't censored, because I believe in free speech. I guess just prefer not to associate with people who feel that way, or at least ask them to keep those particular sentiments to themselves and other people who agree.

[Guest083011]

Originally Posted by Carrie Hillcrest

That is incredibly disrespectful and childish. He knows that the issue is important enough to you that you felt the need to tell him it made you upset and uncomfortable, but he continues to bring it up, hoping to get a rise out of you.

Word. It is disrespectful to you and your friend {}. I do not suffer fools lightly. This person (I will not use the adjective "gentleman") is so oblivious or obnoxious (or both) that he us unaware of saying these things are unacceptable decorum. So while he may have some redeeming qualities they should not outweigh your personal values and standards.

Originally Posted by Natalie

Actually, I think it's his actual viewpoint that bothers me—uh, I mean, my friend. I think there are certain ideas, such as characterizing an entire ethnic group as violent, that are just wrong, no matter how eloquently you explain yourself. I feel that way about very few things, but racism is one of them.

So be done with him (or tell your "friend" to be done with him).

Originally Posted by Natalie

I was riding a bus one time and saw a lesbian couple sitting across the aisle from me.

Some of my best friends are lesbians. And gay men. If they are intelligent and have a sense of humor and are good people, then I'll be your friend.

Originally Posted by Natalie

I guess just prefer not to associate with people who feel that way, or at least ask them to keep those particular sentiments to themselves and other people who agree.

Again, word.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Natalie

So anyway, I'm not interested in hearing someone's racist and violent viewpoints even when expressed in the most articulate fashion. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and I'm thankful we live in a country where even bigots aren't censored, because I believe in free speech. I guess just prefer not to associate with people who feel that way, or at least ask them to keep those particular sentiments to themselves and other people who agree.

The I agree with SR_only. You need to find a new patron.

[ClairJordan]

But for most gents, a gentle reminder that, "you know how much I enjoy being with you but as I've said before, this topic makes me extremely uncomfortable. Could we agree to not include it in our delightful times together? It's a mood breaker and a deal-breaker for me." If he doesn't get it by then, move on to number 4--disappear and never look back. You've already been more patient than most.

I agree with this approach. Religion and politics are best left out of bedroom (or approaching the bedroom) talk but!!
If that fails...see ya!!

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by ClairJordan

Religion and politics are best left out of bedroom (or approaching the bedroom) talk but!!

The only religion most of us want to hear in the bedroom is her screaming "Oh God!!!"