Comments: Women Faking It

[charlestudor2005]

Posted on CNN @ http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2...faking/?hpt=C2.

Ladies & Gents: observations??? Do the guys really need this???

As a sex therapist, my profession often makes for interesting, and sometimes awkward, dinner conversation. Not too long ago I was at a cocktail party, when a woman in her mid-30s descended upon me. “Quick” she said in hushed tones, “My husband’s getting me a drink. We only have a few seconds. How do I get him to read your book, ‘She Comes First,’ without hurting his feelings?”

But before I could respond, or even think about my response, her husband sauntered over, draped his arm around her shoulder and chimed in, “Hey, you’re the guy who writes those sex books, right? I have just one question for you: why didn’t you pick me to be your co-author? I could have given you some secrets – right honey?” We all laughed, and as I made awkward eye contact with the wife, it was clear that she was the one with the real secret and it was going to stay that way. And she’s not alone.

According to the recently published National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior 85 percent of men said that their partner had experienced an orgasm during their most recent sexual event, while only 64 percent of women reported actually having had an orgasm. The implication: Lots of women are faking it—and getting away with it. And as we know from the famous “I’ll have what she’s having” scene in "When Harry Met Sally," men are easily hoodwinked.

But yet for all our “orgasmic naiveté,” men are often the first to be blamed as the source of such female fraudulence. On a recent episode of “The Joy Behar Show” titled, “Is There an Orgasm Gap?” the general consensus among the all-female panel was that men need to be better educated about female sexuality, and that faking is a necessary byproduct of the male ego and protecting a guy’s self-esteem.

Personally, I don’t buy it. If a tree falls in the woods and there’s no one there to hear it, does it make a sound? If a woman fakes it and her partner thinks she is actually enjoying the sex, is her dissatisfaction really heard?

Don’t get me wrong: As a sex and relationships counselor I’m all for education. I do believe that men get too many of their ideas about female sexuality from porn. There’s no shortage of legitimate reasons why a woman might not experience an orgasm during sex. “Find me a women’s magazine whose cover doesn’t include screaming headlines about the 764 varieties of orgasm every woman is supposed to be having each time she has sex,” writes my colleague Emily Nagoski in the Good in Bed Guide to Female Orgasms. “In reality, life gets in the way—stress, depression, anxiety, body image, performance anxiety (women get it too), sleep deprivation, feeling rushed (women average roughly 10-30 minutes to orgasm), all interfere with orgasm. So sometimes women fake it.”
But is Emily justified in justifying the occasional “fake-out”?

According to her, faking isn’t evil; it’s often a well-intentioned safeguard for her partner’s ego. “A woman is less likely to have orgasms early in a relationship—her body needs time to learn to trust a new partner and to relax into the knowledge that he accepts and appreciates her body,” she writes. “At the same time, if a woman likes her partner, she wants him to feel good about the relationship. If orgasm is a way she can show him she’s enjoying it, but orgasm just isn’t there for her yet, faking it is a completely viable option—as long as it doesn’t become a habit.”
I have always tended to agree with Emily (and scores of other professionals) on the legitimacy of the occasional fake-out, but with this latest study it seems that faking has become the little white lie that’s amounted to a culturally accepted form of deception.

So I’m reversing my opinion: Faking every now and then is not OK. Sure, talking about sex can be difficult; sure it’s easier to spare one’s feelings; and sure there are men who will respond defensively—but none of that actually justifies lying. Every time a woman fakes it for a legitimate reason, she undermines that legitimacy and loses an opportunity to communicate with her partner and deepen his understanding of their relationship.

And remember, ladies, what goes around comes around. As I wrote last week for this blog, more and more men are faking it too. So instead of faking it, let’s talk about sex. It isn’t always easy, but, in the end, not talking about sex is even harder. And for all the moaning and groaning, faking the big O is just a big conversation-stopper.

[TexTushHog]

I've never heard of such!! Must be happening to other guys.

[Camille]

"“A woman is less likely to have orgasms early in a relationship—her body needs time to learn to trust a new partner and to relax into the knowledge that he accepts and appreciates her body,” she writes. “At the same time, if a woman likes her partner, she wants him to feel good about the relationship. "

I agree with the above...and can see why taking the faking it route might seem like a good idea to some women at time. I don't think men are that obtuse though that they couldn't accept that time to adjust is required yet need to have someone "fake it" until such a time arrives. Maybe I'm wrong.....is the male ego really that frail?

[BadWolf]

Some may be that frail...and although faking it may be viewed by some as a service to the male, a recent experience I had was much more satisfying. The provider and I really communicated. I do qualify myself as an experienced and adept lover, however this was my first date with this woman, and every woman is different. She took the time to expertly communicate and guide me in the specifics that her body craved. To witness her authentic full bloom was very fulfilling.

[Black Sedan]

I'd dump a lady if I had one faking on me.

It's probably happened. I think I've had hookups with ladies who have faked, but nobody I was in a serious relationship with. The communication is so forthcoming, there's no reason to fake anything. Like the article says, some ladies need some time, and if they are more difficult than some, it takes time for their partner to learn their bodies.

[macksback]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

I've never heard of such!! Must be happening to other guys.

same here

[Laurentius]

I want to differentiate between hobby and civie sex for this. It simply makes no sense to expect a woman who 30 minutes ago thought you might be LE and even now doesn't know you from Adam to be having orgasms where she needs to be scraped off the ceiling.

I don't believe that all providers are always acting. Sometimes they are quite genuine and their reactions are real. But because the hobby does not reflect mate choice; I really don't think the good Dr's thoughts are applicable to the hobby.

I'm a musician among other things and have a good sense of rhythm. I can tell you if a woman's orgasm is real or not by its rhythm -- something that cannot be faked because contractions at that precise rhythm cannot be done voluntarily due to the interference of reaction time. But I'm a nice guy so I'll let a woman THINK she has fooled me so long as she doesn't strain credulity. So paradoxically, while the woman may think she is protecting my ego, I am in fact catering to hers.

I saw a provider a while back for sex lessons, and She Comes First was one of the textbooks she specified. Having tried what I learned on civies, it certainly works. I don't think the book adequately emphasizes the various psychological aspects (for that see other sources), and it is far from complete because there are other approaches that work as well; but it is still a good book I'd recommend based on the results with civies.

A provider may not know me very well. So if she fakes an orgasm it is understandable, totally forgivable and fine. I'd prefer she NOT fake, because I like to see ladies multiple times and a lack of faking increases my odds of pleasing her better the next time; plus indicates that she has adequately enough grasped my personality for sexual purposes.

With civies, there really is NO excuse to faking an orgasm with me. Faking an orgasm, besides the fact I'll know and the lady will lose credibility, is a sure-fire way to make certain my sexual approach does NOT adapt to her needs!

In fact, it is incredibly insulting because by faking, she is telling me that she thinks my ego is fragile, that I cannot be taught how to please her, etc. What it really tells me is that I shouldn't be having sex with her.

Every woman is different. Because of this, no matter how I approach things, there is a good chance on a first attempt that I won't be the world's best lover for her. That doesn't upset me -- it simply gives me the impetus to discuss with her further what she would like.

If I am STILL not a good lover for her by the third time -- it is HER fault for failing to provide honest feedback.

[China Doll]

I once read an article outlining the relationships between incidence of faked female orgasms and culture. The only specific thing I remember from the article is that hispanic women faked it far, far less frequently than white women in the studies. The researchers believed that in cultures where women are not expected to orgasm every time, the women don't feel the pressure to fake it.

Using this hypothesis as a basis for new thoughts, a general willingness to fake for one culture/race may actually be a good thing. It could show that the men care more about the pleasure of the women. However, Laurentius has a point: Repeated faking is likely to have a disastrous effect on the long term sexual relationship.

[Ansley]

It sounds as though, faking it is like telling a white lie.

[China Doll]

Originally Posted by Ansley

It sounds as though, faking it is like telling a white lie.

I think you're right. One client and I discussed the idea of faking. I was saying that I don't think that providers should fake, and he thought they should. I understand better his point of view; he believed that it's a part of the experience, and grown men are old enough to know that it might not be real.

I had thought that it would be better to show a man what I like so that I could provide him with the real thing, but does that mean I can orgasm every time? Goodness, no! Of course, I reach climax in all of the reviews no matter what. I still don't fake it, but I am much more accepting of the idea than I was before.

This client and I played a fun little game during an extended session. He asked me to fake one of the orgasms to see if he could tell which one it was. What a fun idea! I enjoyed playing this game with him. The result? He picked the wrong one. In his defense, I did had a few weeks before our rendezvous to start paying attention to my body's outward signals at the peak of ecstacy.

[burkalini]

I have NEVER had a woman fake it with me.
Well I don't think they have. Well maybe once in awhile.

Now that I think about it the lying bitches...........


No really making a woman orgasm is just as hot as me having one.

[Laurentius]

Originally Posted by China Doll

Of course, I reach climax in all of the reviews no matter what.

I have a funny anecdote for this. I have a few reviews on another site, and by habit I never include the woman's orgasms in reviews. I figure if she has them, they are her business. Reviews are bad enough to start with, but I've done them for ladies where they could be of benefit.

Anyway, the most recent review I have on that site (about 6 months ago), when it was published, the lady asked me to edit it if possible to specifically include that she had experienced an orgasm. Go figure!

I saw her again recently for a paid public date. (I was too busy for BCD time but still wanted to say hi while she was in town.) If she wants me to report an orgasm during that one she'll be pushing it a bit; though I admit the food was good.

(*grin*)

But now a question for my Cyber Lover ... did the guy who misidentified the orgasm do so through visual/auditory observations alone?

[China Doll]

Question from Cyber Lover answered:

I don't know! I have alerted him to the presence of this thread. Perhaps he will pop in and tell us!

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

I want to differentiate between hobby and civie sex for this.

No doubt there's a difference. Equally so, however, i would suggest there's a difference between a girl who orgasms 9 times out of every 10 with her partner whilst faking it every 10th time, and a girl who orgasms once out of 10 times while faking it the other 9 times. Just to be clear.

Originally Posted by China Doll

I think you're right. One client and I discussed the idea of faking. I was saying that I don't think that providers should fake, and he thought they should.

I'd have to agree with your client. While maybe not a majority, i think you'd be surprised at how many gents would suggest that their favorite moment during sex is when their partner has an orgasm. I'd be one of those gents. So in many cases, providing that illusion to the client - whether real or imaginary - could be just as important as providing them with an actual orgasm of their own. At least if you want to provide them with what could be their favorite moment of your encounter with them.

Now, after hearing that, the obvious accusations would concern the matter of the male ego. Or more specifically, my male ego. A few points i'll make towards that, at least in my own defense.

1. Porn, in a general sense, bores me to tears. Except for the 1 minute (or so) "pre orgasm-orgasm-post orgasm" snippets i can locate. So whether i'm providing the orgasm, or someone else is providing the orgasm, i just like to witness women having orgasms. It's simply an extension of my enjoyment in seeing them naked.
2. One particular provider whom i've visited with multiple times, who shall remain nameless, says she doesn't fake it. With that being the case, if i ever revealed the number of orgasms she's had with me in our 4 encounters, eyes would probably roll at my supposed naivete. But if she emailed me tomorrow and said that all of them were fake except one, i wouldn't take it as a blow to my ego so much as I'd take it as her having made the effort to provide me with what i'm looking for in a satisfactory encounter. Though if that were the case, i'd admit to a bit of disappointment in her having ignored my pleas for advice on how i could have been a better lover for her.
3. I may get 30 whacks with a wet noodle from her for saying this, but i'm a prisoner to my own cynicism in this regard. Which is to say that if said provider emailed me and said they were all fake except one, i really wouldn't be entirely surprised. I certainly hope they all were in fact real, but my ego is certainly kept in check by the varying degrees to which i believe in the reality of each particular one.
4. Even if it were entirely about ego, well, that's still part of the experience that guys might be paying for. Hence, i would still argue that having an "orgasm" or two provides for good customer service.

I had thought that it would be better to show a man what I like so that I could provide him with the real thing, but does that mean I can orgasm every time? Goodness, no!

And we gents would be wise to accept the fact that next Thursday at 3PM, in spite of her scheduling availability, may not be a time that's conducive to a lady being relaxed, and dare i say, horny enough to achieve an orgasm.

This client and I played a fun little game during an extended session. He asked me to fake one of the orgasms to see if he could tell which one it was. What a fun idea! I enjoyed playing this game with him. The result? He picked the wrong one. In his defense, I did had a few weeks before our rendezvous to start paying attention to my body's outward signals at the peak of ecstacy.

And also in my defense, i think i was able to fool you once, too. If memory serves.

Originally Posted by Laurentius

But now a question for my Cyber Lover ... did the guy who misidentified the orgasm do so through visual/auditory observations alone?

Though not your cyber lover, i'll take this one. A fully in depth answer would require me to make a petiteassman out of myself and expose aspects of China's sexual reactions that i won't mention in a public forum. Suffice it to say, however, that the position and activity we were involved in allowed for gauging only auditory, and to a lesser extent, visual reactions on her part. So she cheated, is what i'm sayin'.

Originally Posted by China Doll

I have alerted him to the presence of this thread. Perhaps he will pop in and tell us!

So......how'd i do?

[China Doll]

Originally Posted by Doove

No doubt there's a difference. Equally so, however, i would suggest there's a difference between a girl who orgasms 9 times out of every 10 with her partner whilst faking it every 10th time, and a girl who orgasms once out of 10 times while faking it the other 9 times. Just to be clear.

Agreed.

I'd have to agree with your client. While maybe not a majority, i think you'd be surprised at how many gents would suggest that their favorite moment during sex is when their partner has an orgasm. I'd be one of those gents. So in many cases, providing that illusion to the client - whether real or imaginary - could be just as important as providing them with an actual orgasm of their own. At least if you want to provide them with what could be their favorite moment of your encounter with them.

Now, after hearing that, the obvious accusations would concern the matter of the male ego. Or more specifically, my male ego. A few points i'll make towards that, at least in my own defense.

1. Porn, in a general sense, bores me to tears. Except for the 1 minute (or so) "pre orgasm-orgasm-post orgasm" snippets i can locate. So whether i'm providing the orgasm, or someone else is providing the orgasm, i just like to witness women having orgasms. It's simply an extension of my enjoyment in seeing them naked.
2. One particular provider whom i've visited with multiple times, who shall remain nameless, says she doesn't fake it. With that being the case, if i ever revealed the number of orgasms she's had with me in our 4 encounters, eyes would probably roll at my supposed naivete. But if she emailed me tomorrow and said that all of them were fake except one, i wouldn't take it as a blow to my ego so much as I'd take it as her having made the effort to provide me with what i'm looking for in a satisfactory encounter. Though if that were the case, i'd admit to a bit of disappointment in her having ignored my pleas for advice on how i could have been a better lover for her.
3. I may get 30 whacks with a wet noodle from her for saying this, but i'm a prisoner to my own cynicism in this regard. Which is to say that if said provider emailed me and said they were all fake except one, i really wouldn't be entirely surprised. I certainly hope they all were in fact real, but my ego is certainly kept in check by the varying degrees to which i believe in the reality of each particular one.

Doove, you are so damn annoying. [rolls eyes]

1. Even if it were entirely about ego, well, that's still part of the experience that guys might be paying for. Hence, i would still argue that having an "orgasm" or two provides for good customer service.

And we gents would be wise to accept the fact that next Thursday at 3PM, in spite of her scheduling availability, may not be a time that's conducive to a lady being relaxed, and dare i say, horny enough to achieve an orgasm.

And also in my defense, i think i was able to fool you once, too. If memory serves.

He's right. I fell for it 100%. I didn't realize what had happened until he started laughing.



Though not your cyber lover, i'll take this one. A fully in depth answer would require me to make a petiteassman out of myself and expose aspects of China's sexual reactions that i won't mention in a public forum. Suffice it to say, however, that the position and activity we were involved in allowed for gauging only auditory, and to a lesser extent, visual reactions on her part. So she cheated, is what i'm sayin'.

Thank you, my darling. I hadn't thought that this would be necessary, and I appreciate your willingness to keep our intimate moments intimate. <3 Now that I'm thinking about it, I did choose a position that gave me an advantage, but then again, when did I ever claim to be fair?



So......how'd i do?

You did wonderfully! Now, I would like to see you and Laurentius fight over me. 1, 2, 3, GO!