Is this where we're truly headed now?

[The_Waco_Kid]

define threat any way you want, I'd agree with all of them including a government that abandons the principles of the constitution. or the law including the Posse Comitatus Act. What would prevent Obama from ordering federal troops into the states under some bullshit reason for martial law? Posse Comitatus is supposed to but what really would? the right to bear arms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

LA riots? which one? Watts? that was a mob who overreacted to a lawful arrest, because The Man (white cop) arrested a drunk black man, who should have been arrested. racist had nothing to do with it but the black population in Watts thought it was a racist arrest when it was not. and what did those idiots do? they burned down their own neighborhood! if they really wanted to stick it to whitey they should have burned down Beverly Hills. of course the wonderful Fed Gov spent zillions to rebuild the area. unfortunately 100 years after the Civil War (which really by the way had nothing to with slavery directly it had to do with State's Rights vs. the Federal Government, one of those rights was the right to slaves in the south) there was still racial prejudice of the population, but the government had nothing to do with it. Quite different than say Hitler rounding up Jews or the Chinese arresting dissidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Riots

Free countries do impose their will. by enacting laws by elected representatives of the people. or at least that's how it's supposed to work. a vastly different thing than imposing censorship, repression, freedom of speech, etc.

no we didn't invent capitalism nor did the Chinese. a Brit did. John Maynard Keynes. and Keynesian economics is not really capitalism, capitalism is simply based on the principles of Keynesian economics.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

[Lust4xxxLife]

I'm in Europe this week and about to head into meetings. WK (Waco Kid, not White Knight, as far as I know), I appreciate your feedback and I'll respond to your points when I can. I promise not to use the I-word! It's a good discussion and it isn't finished yet.

[CenterLock]

This is where we - as a free, Democratic, civilized nation - differ from totalitarian regimes. We have no need to roll out a militia to cull dissidents. We simply "freedom" them out of the equation. Where my freedom becomes a bane to "the powers that be", there can be laws enacted to stifle that freedom. Perhaps in my case that is a good thing - but now that law is on the books and can be used to stifle yours as well without regard for "intent" of the original law - legislating from the bench isn't supposed to happen tho, right?
(With regard to the right to bear arms, I believe we are a bit jaded here in Texas. Not quite the rallying cry in other areas of the country)

The point about riots was directed at the "no reason to revolt" premise and the fact that they destroyed their own neighborhood underscores my point. In a country supposedly ripe with opportunities, it took next to nothing for those riots to ensue. Care to add to the population and hope for a better result?

I do not argue how it is "supposed" to work. I argue that it falls short of the original intent and is headed farther away every year. I also care less to look at other countries and say "well, we aren't THAT bad" but would rather look at ourselves and admit that we are getting there in our own way and business as usual is the best way to ensure we get there.

L4L - enjoy your trip :-)

[Par_Shooter]

Originally Posted by Lust4xxxLife

Is the Tea Party the answer? No! They're ignorant dummies who don't understand our position in the world and would spend even less on education and the right programs if they had their way. They are the enemy. The Tea Party is far more of a threat to America in the long term than any mideast terrorist organization.

Care to explain this? This looks like statement ripped from a left-wing blogger. It's a stereotypical statement at best based on no facts or thought whatsoever. It doesn't fit with the rest of your thoughts.

[Lust4xxxLife]

Originally Posted by Par_Shooter

Care to explain this? This looks like statement ripped from a left-wing blogger. It's a stereotypical statement at best based on no facts or thought whatsoever. It doesn't fit with the rest of your thoughts.

Sure.

The Tea Party started off as a bunch of people – like me – who are very dissatisfied with the job our government is doing – both parties. Very quickly, all major parties seized it as an opportunity to push their own agendas and the professional spin-meisters went into action. Initially it looked to me like the Tea Party was starting to move to the left, but then it took a hard right turn and has – in my opinion – been corrupted by the usual suspects on the right. This has disenfranchised a lot of the initial Tea Party supporters and many have left the fold. What's left, in my opinion, are a group of people who are still pissed off, generally uninformed, and susceptible to the propaganda being fed to them. As far as evidence goes, there's plenty. Let's start with three people who have exploited the Tea party membership for their own interests and have emerged as three of its most visible standard bearers: Sarah Palin, Christine O'Donnell, and Glenn Beck. All three are examples of uninformed populist morons and that's why I say they are so dangerous. They're good talkers (like Obama) but they don't have a CLUE what they're talking about.

[Guest032213-02]

+1

[Randy4Candy]

Some interesting observations and good ideas so far.

It would be really great if we could concentrate more on the common points of concern and what could be done together to help instead of dwelling on the differences. Waiting around for or demanding 100% agreement gets nothing done.

Keep in mind that the non-energy related heyday of American manufacturing lasted approximately 25 years (ca. 1950 - 1973) beginning with the end of WWII and ending upon the first Arab oil embargo. Before that, there was the Great Depression. From 1973 until now, we have mainly been coasting on the momentum of that era and new technological advancements with the manufacturing sector dwindling, taking with it not only the loss of those core jobs but jobs and opportunities in support industries. Prior to WWII the good ol' US of A was a textbook rural society with the accompanying value system. Not sure that there's a point to my observation other than it's kind of apples vs oranges to long for a return to the golden days of yesteryear. But, there are certain things such as knowledge, value of hard work and respect of others (whether more or less fortunate) that are timeless.

[Lust4xxxLife]

R4C - Very good post. Since we've tapped into some passion in this thread, maybe we should talk about what we'd like to see happen, not just about what's pissing us off.

But first... one thing I learned last night. Google, now an American flagship company, paid 2% corporate income tax last year. They transferred ownership of their core earnings engine to an entity of theirs in Ireland where there is no corporate income tax. I understand that Google has a duty to their shareholders, but I think that action is despicable. Google would not exist without the benefits they get from this country yet they duck when it comes time to contribute. Whatever happened to "do no evil"? That action of theirs affects every American citizen.

[Randy4Candy]

Well, as some guy in rags in the Middle East once said, "The love of money is the root of all evil." Not money, but the LOVE of it. That makes people do some radical things in the pursuit of and maintaining of wealth. All businesses should be allowed to earn all they can - legitimately and without gaming the system. Certain breaks for businesses are even called for, especially if they provide well paying jobs and the businesses are good citizens, i.e. not biting the hand that feeds them the breaks. The hand should then proceed with a bitch slapping of the biter. Unfortunately, the feeding hand has been gnawed off to the shoulder.

A large problem, as I see it, in our political system is the obscene amount of money it takes to run a competitive race at every level above county. It is impossible for the "average citizen," or even the above average who hasn't spent his/her life pursuing vast personal wealth, to run for office without having to whore-down to those who have the cash. Though it's always been that way to a certain extent, the breakdown of the political party structure, both from internal and external reforms (obviously not the best word), as the primary source of funding has a lot to do with it. As mailgned as the "ward heeler" of the past was, that system was remarkably efficient. But, those days are gone - never to return.

To me, it's the old "follow the money" gig. Campaign finance reform (definition to be made up later) is the 800lb GOrilla in the room and it's a hell of a task to take on but it's the only way to make the "For Sale" sign on our government a manageable size.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by CenterLock

but now that law is on the books and can be used to stifle yours as well without regard for "intent" of the original law - legislating from the bench isn't supposed to happen tho, right?

good point, my Dad has said this is one of the biggest porblems in this country, i agree. He also said giving women the right to vote was a bad idea, not so sure about that but giving them driver's licenses sure was!

Originally Posted by Lust4xxxLife

But first... one thing I learned last night. Google, now an American flagship company, paid 2% corporate income tax last year. They transferred ownership of their core earnings engine to an entity of theirs in Ireland where there is no corporate income tax.

Whatever happened to "do no evil"? That action of theirs affects every American citizen.

Really? did not know that, so i guess they should change that part to

"do no evil, unless it costs you tax dollars!"

so i .. googled it LOL! turns out many american companies do what is called the "Double Irish"

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/...dutch-sandwich