Some Perspective From A Retired Pro -

[PODarkness]

Max, I did not mean to imply that the ladies in this industry were less than they are. I used examples to describe intangible value because it seemed simpler than a more wordy definition. I apologize if it was taken as a comparison.

I won't belabor the point, as it seems we've beat this horse to extremes, and I take your point that a provider's service is very personal. In my opinion, it is the providers willingness to take something so personal, and make a living selling it openly, that sets them apart from civilian ladies. The toll on the self-esteem this can create is why the business is not for everybody. Only the very strong and the very weak stay in it. It's almost cliche to say that civilian women sell it too, but they play both sides of the fence, protecting their self-esteem by pretending it's not an exchange, and demanding their partner pretend as well.

The fact is, our "time" is MORE personal than anything that can be bought or sold. It's not like we can be compared to empty airline seats, classic cars, or even jewels. We're not shining your shoes, making your bed, serving you dinner, filling your tank, washing your windows, painting your portrait or fixing your computer problems. We provide intimacy and if you can name even one single tangible or intangible thing that can be purchased that is comparable to intimacy, I'll stop trying to explain why the ladies might be offended to have it so openly laid out there as if it were empty airline seats being discussed...LOL

Certainly politeness and consideration for feelings are in order when discussing any aspect of such a personal service, out of respect for both parties.
That said, it is the belief that your "time" is not too personal to be bought or sold that makes your profession possible, and is what sets you apart from (and in my opinion makes you better than) civilian women. You can't have it both ways, or you are playing the same game as civilian women who sell it, but are offended if it is discussed on such terms.

POD

[69er]

I've been watching much of this from the sidelines...

I've got my Chipotle Cheddar Cheese Popcorn and a Beer, and enjoying the hell out of the ladies that don't really hear the men, and men that don't hear the ladies.

But... Max has a bit of a "Eureka Moment" here:

Originally Posted by M A X

... Once again, I am privy to certain info that men are not and can say with confidence, that lowering prices has yet to help a lady's business. This is fact and not something I've pulled out of thin air.

I find this a Eureka Moment, in that I believe Max proves that her own thoughts are disproved... by her own "facts".

Think about what Max says this way... If lowering prices has never helped a ladies business, then the corallary must be true. She should be able to raise prices without hurting her business.

Sorry, but I believe pricing for escorts may not be a perfectly elastic model... But I don't believe it is totally inelastic as Max proports as "fact". If it were, we'd have nothing but HDH's!

I think there is some vein of truth to the fact that lowering price will bring more customers. I also believe there is truth in the idea that what the gents are buying is a difficult to quantify item, that does defy some logic. So... Everybody is right, and wrong. I think the truth lies between the two extremes.

[MaxiMilyen]

Originally Posted by 69er

I've been watching much of this from the sidelines...

I've got my Chipotle Cheddar Cheese Popcorn and a Beer, and enjoying the hell out of the ladies that don't really hear the men, and men that don't hear the ladies.

But... Max has a bit of a "Eureka Moment" here:



I find this a Eureka Moment, in that I believe Max proves that her own thoughts are disproved... by her own "facts".

Think about what Max says this way... If lowering prices has never helped a ladies business, then the corallary must be true. She should be able to raise prices without hurting her business.

Sorry, but I believe pricing for escorts may not be a perfectly elastic model... But I don't believe it is totally inelastic as Max proports as "fact". If it were, we'd have nothing but HDH's!

I think there is some vein of truth to the fact that lowering price will bring more customers. I also believe there is truth in the idea that what the gents are buying is a difficult to quantify item, that does defy some logic. So... Everybody is right, and wrong. I think the truth lies between the two extremes.

I guess I just thought I was done.....

Eureka moment....nah Informed provider moment...yeah, pretty much.

I don't believe I ever stated that it always helps business to raise prices, only that others have reported an increase. And just for the record and so everyone knows ahead of time....I will be raising my rates once I hit the two year mark in February. This wasn't meant to be made a public announcement, but seems I'm being challenged on my knowledge of what occurs with a ladies business when it is run well. sigh Gotta love all these logical minds and quantum physics we are subjected to in order to formulate a price for ourselves. Please feel free to insult my intelligence all you want, hon. I appreciate your knowledge and you can bet I learned something from it.

Entertainment is what this board is all about, so pass the popcorn. I'm off to read about how "what's her name" wants to pee on men...

[PODarkness]

Originally Posted by M A X

Entertainment is what this board is all about, so pass the popcorn. I'm off to read about how "what's her name" wants to pee on men...

That would be a great signature line!

Here's your popcorn

[MaxiMilyen]

It only took me 855 posts to finally make a statement that was sig line worthy...LOL Feel free to use it, just give me props for it...

[Sensual Sophia]

This is a very good thread with lots of helpful information. I appreciate all the gents (and ladies) who took the time to offer advice.

I just have a question for those that listed YMMV as a turn-off. I personally don't see how it is possible to give every client the same experience every time, unless you are some kind of fuck-robot. For example, if a guy has freshly washed and shaved his junk, going down there can be a delightful experience I could do all day -- no faking required. Now if he has a jungle of sweaty hair and perhaps has a lot of built up funk between fat rolls that weren't thoroughly cleaned and it smells like a toxic waste dump down there, it's going to be very hard for me to even complete the act, let alone provide the illusion that I am enjoying myself.

And for whatever reason, in this hobby, the stinky guys never know they're stinky and don't seem to be able to take a hint when a shower is offered. I didn't mean to get off track with that specific example... But I feel there are many different factors that influence the level of passion and the services offered in a session. To my knowledge, I've never been accused of being YMMV but to a certain extent, I know that I am.

So I guess my question is what level of YMMV is acceptable for a professional provider?

[PODarkness]

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

This is a very good thread with lots of helpful information. I appreciate all the gents (and ladies) who took the time to offer advice.

I just have a question for those that listed YMMV as a turn-off. I personally don't see how it is possible to give every client the same experience every time, unless you are some kind of fuck-robot. For example, if a guy has freshly washed and shaved his junk, going down there can be a delightful experience I could do all day -- no faking required. Now if he has a jungle of sweaty hair and perhaps has a lot of built up funk between fat rolls that weren't thoroughly cleaned and it smells like a toxic waste dump down there, it's going to be very hard for me to even complete the act, let alone provide the illusion that I am enjoying myself.

And for whatever reason, in this hobby, the stinky guys never know they're stinky and don't seem to be able to take a hint when a shower is offered. I didn't mean to get off track with that specific example... But I feel there are many different factors that influence the level of passion and the services offered in a session. To my knowledge, I've never been accused of being YMMV but to a certain extent, I know that I am.

So I guess my question is what level of YMMV is acceptable for a professional provider?

When a guy reads a review, and the reviewer got a service that the reader is looking for, it effects his selection. If he is told no on the same activity he read about, it's a bummer.

If a guy is funky, he's bound to have many bummers in life.

POD

[bigdog0311]

Originally Posted by Sensual Sophia

This is a very good thread with lots of helpful information. I appreciate all the gents (and ladies) who took the time to offer advice.

I just have a question for those that listed YMMV as a turn-off. I personally don't see how it is possible to give every client the same experience every time, unless you are some kind of fuck-robot. For example, if a guy has freshly washed and shaved his junk, going down there can be a delightful experience I could do all day -- no faking required. Now if he has a jungle of sweaty hair and perhaps has a lot of built up funk between fat rolls that weren't thoroughly cleaned and it smells like a toxic waste dump down there, it's going to be very hard for me to even complete the act, let alone provide the illusion that I am enjoying myself.

And for whatever reason, in this hobby, the stinky guys never know they're stinky and don't seem to be able to take a hint when a shower is offered. I didn't mean to get off track with that specific example... But I feel there are many different factors that influence the level of passion and the services offered in a session. To my knowledge, I've never been accused of being YMMV but to a certain extent, I know that I am.

So I guess my question is what level of YMMV is acceptable for a professional provider?

My .02---

If you say in your ad you provide GFE, PROVIDE IT! Guys call providers because of the services they offer and what they read about in reviews of said provider. There should be no YMMV in that, but the LEVEL of the "illusion of passion" will depend upon chemistry and respectfulness factors and that should be the only YMMV during a session. If I wanted a minimal feeling, "lay there and let me do all the work" sex act, then I would stay home and save my hobby money and do it with my wife all the time. If you cannot even "fake" like you like it so as to make a client happy, then please, DO SOMETHING ELSE, because your phone will not ring not will you get any emails from a veteran hobbiest wanting/booking a session, unless you want to see a different guy every time and have no repeats.

Now hygiene issues are a whole different subject and if a guy does not have the decency to arrive showered and fresh, regardless of how "fat" he is or how "ugly" physically you may think he is, and if he does not want to shower when he gets to your incall, then do not do the session, unless you are that "hard up" for the money and then defend yourself after you get a "no recommendation" review, because you are obviously not going to be "into" the session.

The donation you receive for you time should be all you need to provide the service(s) you say you do in your ad.

[Sensual Sophia]

@bigdog: Good point. We shouldn't do the session if we think we can't do our best. I agree completely. But it is not as easy as it may seem. I have tried to end sessions on 3 occasions and 2 out of the 3 times it went very poorly. Just as it is hard for a guy to walk away from a session when he feels the provider is not as attractive as her pictures or not living up to her reputation, it is just as hard for us to find a tactful way to end a session. Many on both sides of the fence often take a "grin and bare it" approach because it seems easier than the drama that could ensue if one tries to end the session. Guys fear a retaliatory post in the ladies areas and girls fear a negative review or Men's Lounge post. This is especially challenging when the session has gone on for some time before the incompatibility issues are discovered... arguments can ensue about what amount of money, if any, should be left.

But I realize I have inadvertently hijacked the thread onto another topic. Good advice in this thread. Thanks fellas.

[Guest122610]

Sophia,

I get your point. I don't the same experience with every woman I have been with, and can't expect the same for every woman. You didn't say you wouldn't do the same thing with each client, you said it might be different. You are also allowed to run your business any way you choose. You are not a newbie, so it is just a math equation. So the fat guy that smells like a toxic waste dump will not return, is that a bad thing?

BTW, nice ass...

[Sensual Sophia]

Originally Posted by RoundPound

Sophia,

I get your point. I don't the same experience with every woman I have been with, and can't expect the same for every woman. You didn't say you wouldn't do the same thing with each client, you said it might be different. You are also allowed to run your business any way you choose. You are not a newbie, so it is just a math equation. So the fat guy that smells like a toxic waste dump will not return, is that a bad thing?

BTW, nice ass...

Thanks.

Also, I just want to make it clear, just in case anyone might have misread my comments, that I have absolutely no problem with overweight clients -- just unhygienic ones. There are plenty of unhygienic gents of all sizes and plenty of clean guys of all sizes.

Back to your regularly scheduled program.

[roadfun]

As potentially a target of the OP I'll add my $.02 about why I don't repeat.
1. I'm not that into you - for whatever reason we didn't click. Many possible reasons but as has been said above, this is often because it is clear taking my money and performing the advertised service (often less) is being treated as a chore. Even when doing something mundane like buying socks I'm much more likely to go back to a store if the clerks are friendly and I don't just mean a fake smile. Note we don't have to achieve some mind, or body!, meld on the first visit. I've often felt so-so about a first visit and then on subsequent visits felt great about the time. Even if a gal is great we may never click. That's life.
2. You're not that into me - see above. I'll include being available and reachable. If you're trying to do this for a living you need a reliable car, a place to meet, someone to watch your kid(s), and to have a good personality responding to email and/or calls. I've given up trying to see some well known gals here due to the extreme difficulty of making an appointment. Yet I see those same gals complaining about a lack of business. Wonder why?
3. I really don't want to know about your problems, even if we've seen each other before and are friendly. This includes money, family, work, school, exes, kids and so on. If I ask how you're doing I'm expecting conversation not Jerry Springer. Again, I've run into this repeatedly with gals on here who are experienced and you'd think would know better.
4. Deliver at least a bit above your price point. If you're doing the minimum to justify the price (in terms of service, self maintenance, incall, etc) then I'll keep searching for something better. There's nothing to make me repeat with you.
5. Stay in touch with me. Of course this needs to be an "opt in" thing as some guys can't have any contacts. But ask if we can stay in touch and how (email is fine with me and of course PMs on here). Even strippers do this on slow days. But if you send me an email be sure you're not publishing my email address, even though a hobby address, to every other guy you've seen the past 3 years!

Physical beauty is great but the ability to form some sort of connection without turning it into a relationship is more important to getting my repeat business.

I almost hesitate to hit the "Post" button on this! I'm thinking we need to great a business development guide for the fine ladies here on ECCIE :-)

[flboy65]

After reading some of what's been written and noticing the many different opinions on the best approach to solve the problem.... I'm reminded of a story I heard years ago about a guy standing on a street corner in a busy city trying to sell the morning newspaper for $1 million. When someone scoffed at him and told him that he would not sell many newspapers at that price, he responded that he only needed to sell one then he could retire.

Bottom line, is this.... it's really pretty simple...
To increase the volume of your business, you must improve the value of your product, or at least the perceived value.
There are two ways to improve the value
(1) increase the benefit (service level, time, etc.)
(2) lower the cost

Good luck ladies !

[MrKlean]

VERY NICE THREAD!!!!!!

This is the best thread that I have read. I'm not new to the hobby, but new to actually communicating with others in the hobby. This thread shows me that there are some real people behind these threads with some real emotions to vent.

Now to the thread....

Everyone has problems with the economy and with life in and of itself. Many clients want to "forget" about some of their problems, {even if it is for a SMALL period of time in our life (HH, HR, 2hr)}, and live a FANTASY. If the fantasy is his best, the provider becomes an ATF.

So as mentioned earlier, time is really important to clients. If a provider, cancels or doesn't pick up, he has possibly ruined the client's opportunity. This is a BCD hobby, and depending on the client, another window like this can be weeks to months away. This is why clients get upset , we are ASSUMING that you know this.

Client's also ASSUME that if you are sick, tired, sleepy, mad, hurting, cranky, etc. that you WILL NOT make an appointment at that time. There is not anyway a provider can make a client happy when she is not emotionally, physically, or HORMONAL in control herself. Schedule when you are ready to give an ALLTIME EXPERIENCE ONLY! If you have a chance to be an ATF, give it your best shot, EVERY provideer is potentially the client's next ATF. The client chose the provider. PROVIDER'S, show the client's that they made the right choice, AND he is going to enjoy himself so much, that he will have to come back for more. Stop focusing on you (the provider) and focus on the client. Treat is like business. If you make the client comfortable (Would you like something to drink?), he will relax and have a more enjoyable time. Be thoughtful, (Are you in a rush, can we chat for a second to get to know each other). Guys won't (maybe rarely) talk a girls head off.....statistic, most people never talk for more than 2 minutes straight. Getting to know each other also makes the provider more comfortable and able to provide an ATF experience.

Clients are trying to live out a fantasy and have CHOSEN you to live it out with. So treat the Client like that and help him live out the fantasy and your reviews will be excellent and you will become an ATF

I think that all of the above threads are excellent, they fully describe what it takes to be be an excellent provider. So the next time that I meet with a provider,

"CAN I expect what was in this wonderful thread?

I will write a review of how wonderful our time was and how I have my first ATF!!

The clients would not be here if we didn't NEED the providers to make our lives complete. The hobby has gotten so complicated that it is difficult for hobbyist to know who is real and who is not. Is the picture photo-shopped? What does she really look like? Not how you looked 10 years ago. It is ok to look however you look. Looks are only a portion of the reasons that a Client chooses you. I use the word choose, because that is very important. The client has chosen you from this circus of sites....BP... and is willing to give you his hard earned money for your "Time and Companionship."

It doesn't matter your size, height, hair color, race, AGE, there is a CLIENT/PROVIDER that wants YOU.

Every provider has what it takes to make this experience.....every client......feel that this "quicky, HH, HR" will be the best 30 minutes the client has ever experienced. The client will not forget you, but the provider will not forget the experience either.
I think that the providers have to focus on the experience. The experience is different for each client. The only way to know is to TALK to him, get a feel for what he likes and dislikes.

If you get to know your client, you will know what kind of experience he is looking for. If you don't know, ask him. It is ok to talk to guy, especially if you don't think that he is enjoying himself. Guys give clues that they aren't having a good time. Change the tone (soft to rough) if a guy seems to not be in it, change from rough to sensual, kiss him, guys like spontaneity.

A kiss, doesn't have to be fk, just a peck, changes a man's sensation on how the provider views him. No one is perfect, clients or providers. Clients like to know that you are into the experience like they are. Kissing is one thing that shows that the provider is trying to make this an ATF experience and be the client's ATF

Providers you are doing excellent. Just bring your A game to every experience. (Clients are doing this everytime)

I think that if the Providers would try their VERY BEST to make every encounter an ATF for the client, we would not have this thread. The clients are CHOOSING you, and the economy has hit us ALL,
(CLIENTS GOT HURT THE MOST, disposable money is less)

I love this thread and this hobby, this thread should be started periodically

I am ready for my ATF EXRERIENCE.

PM ME Ladies.

Lastly, I think that everyone tries to do a good job in most things that they do. What makes a person EXCEL is self-discipline. Do whatever you say that you are going to do. If you are going to be on-time.....be on-time, that means get there early. You should be clean and fresh on arrival (both parties). You should know if the guy likes it rough or sensual or both, which first. His favorite position while having sex. How his ATF experience comes to an end. If providers act as directors (some guys) or assistants (other guys) to the ATF experience then it will be a great experience at minimum, and if all things mix and match...it could be an ATF EXPERIENCE.

Sorry for the long thread.
You will be calling me back soon. The provider should feel that way when she is finished.


The question is "When I meet with provider tomorrow, will my encounter live up to the above thread?"


Please PM me to "show me"