The glory days of the HDH are over.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

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So I don't see a guy deciding to renew his fidelity to his mate, paying an SB instead of escorts or even choosing to have sex with a civie lady instead of an escort (something I may do once in a while) as unempowering to women generally. Where one woman may lose, another gains.



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That is exactly right.

Originally Posted by Laurentius

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And I don't think that approach poses any risk whatsoever to the HDH business model.

Personally, I see the existence of HDHs as proof that the model works. The free market is merciless, so if the model didn't work it would be marginalized or driven out of the market in short order. So I see the existence of HDHs as proof that the model has merit.

Agreed again. Damn!

The market has just gotten smaller. It will never dry up. Afterall they don't call it the oldest profession in the whole wide lil lo world for nothing.

Settle down ladies, ya'll getting your panties in a wad for nutn. woodyboyd can not shape the price of arse.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by WTF

Settle down ladies, ya'll getting your panties in a wad for nutn. woodyboyd can not shape the price of arse.

I'm sure you meant the price of time

[Guest083011]

... and companionship.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/09...usehold-value/

"The value of US stock and housing equity fell 25.7% from the pre-crash peak (June 07) to the recent low – $65.8 trillion down to $48.8 trillion — a destruction of value of nearly $17 trillion dollars."

"On Friday, in the December unemployment report, the Bureau of Labor Statistics said the number of people out of work for 27 weeks or more hit 6.1 million Americans, or 40 percent of all 15.3 million jobless. This is the most since 1948, when the data was first recorded, according to the Department of Labor. On average, it now takes 20.5 weeks to find a new job – double the amount of time in the 1982-83 recession."

This data is six months old, but I think it makes the point.

Anyone interested in demographics can look here: http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/country.php

What is sad Sydney is that someone who presents economic data that you do not like is beat up and called a prick and a troll. Instead of showing any remorse in your completely ridiculous assessment of my intentions, you further your delusion by adding to it. Do you think my post here is going to manipulate the escort market more than a $17 trillion loss of wealth and a loss of ten million jobs?




If I could intimidate women as you suggest, why would I pay them anything?

Here is the problem with all of your studies/data/links: we all get it. We are living through this along with you. Most of us pay some attention to current events. You aren't impressing anyone except maybe WTF.

Here is the problem with your argument: not all sectors of the economy have behaved the same way thru this recession/soft economy/whatever you want to call it. You can't throw out a bunch of macro economic data and draw conclusions, as truths, about what is going on in the adult business.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

I'm sure you meant the price of time

Yea Yea Yea Yea! Dats what I meant

Originally Posted by SR Only

... and companionship.

Damn Dat Too!

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

. You aren't impressing anyone except maybe WTF.

I'm impressed you noticed!

Originally Posted by atlcomedy

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You can't throw out a bunch of macro economic data and draw conclusions, as truths, about what is going on in the adult business.

Sho you can, it just don't mean it be true fo everyone.


I'm so confused, is the price of vagina going up or down?

[Laurentius]

I agree that the macroeconomic picture can't be used to tell the story; particularly with regard to HDHs.

I'm not especially wealthy or anything, but my wealth has increased steadily over the past decade; even though amount of wealth in the surrounding society (at least on paper) has declined overall. I'm sure I'm not the only guy out there getting richer.

And there is no accounting for choices.

Pretend an annual hobby budget of $4800. That's enough to book a medium-dollar hottie for $400 once a month. In my area, that's enough to book 24 appointments with median-priced providers or even more with lower-priced ladies.

But what if the guy can't swing the time that often? What if he can only swing the time every other month? Well that gives him an average of $800 available for each of 6 appointments. That's enough to book many of HDHs. (I define HDH as a minimum booking price of $500 because that is the median man's take-home pay for a week.)

What if 3 of his appointments are with ladies charging $500? That means he has $1,100 each for his next three appointments. What if 3 of them cost $250? That leaves him with $4050 for three appointments. What if he skips one of those three? That leaves him 2 appointments at $2k each.

He could have just 4 appointments a year for $1200 each.

What I am getting at is that a guy with a pretty ordinary looking budget can decide to book HDHs if he is willing to postpone gratification and have fewer appointments.

So as long as you have men willing to postpone gratification, even if they aren't rolling in dough, some of them will be booking HDHs for at least some of their appointments.

Not all clients of HDHs are especially wealthy.

[Sydneyb]

Oops. Wrote this in response, before I saw this last page was here ....in any case, my argument fell with Alts and even Woody's reasonable response: Different markets made different (or sometimes the same) kings. Bottom line: your (mostly) stats don't line up with the client base of the HDH.....oh; and deciding what an HDH is based on the Average income of a man makes zero sense, since the average income wouldnt support an HDH. That 1% is a pretty powerful group.....

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

What is sad Sydney is that someone who presents economic data that you do not like is beat up and called a prick and a troll.

The thing is; the HDH model depends on the VP and even EVP level for filler, not base pay. The Hedge fund guys, the ranchers, the oil boys (even with a depressed oil and gas market) -- oh - and the European playboys that got lucky by biology; They're fine. Better, in some cases. So perhaps the client base in dire situations that you present simply aren't swimming in the same pool.

We all know the economic crisis isn't over; but in the cases of men that got lucky due to their pool of oil - or gene's - aren't going to change thier lives drastically.

Has it occurred to you that your case studies simply aren't the HDH client base? Do those hurt by the economy see an occassional HDH? Yep. And sometimes its wonderful for both parties. Bottome line: the bread and butter isn't broke babe (I love me some allereration).

Then there is Laurentius' version - that being a strong appreciation of women of a certain type. Whatever that type is. If he feels he is getting value, he'll pay it. Bottom line.

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

If I could intimidate women as you suggest, why would I pay them anything?

There's lots of reasons. First thought: you can't unless she's a weakened target. Or maybe its the chase manifesting in a lame attempt at trying to intimidate. But coming here, you know that at least some women feel that they are coming from a position of need. Many women that enter into this industry do so out of need; if they don't enter into this from a position of empowerment, they could easily be intimidated. Maybe that's your gig. You wouldn't have been the first I've seen that have tried....

I sure as heck don't think its your altruistic bent. But hey. Maybe that's just what it is....

[Camille]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

I didn't address this, and it was first poised by PJ. Yes, SBs are different from escorts, however like my analogy to CDs and MP3s, you are paying money for sex just like you are paying money for music. So they are different but also alike

If you follow the conventional SB model, then yes commitment and relationship building are part of it. However, there is no reason that model has to be followed. Unless there is a lot of trust with the client, the HDH and escort have to follow a set protocol. If they don't, they can be called out on review boards for their inconsistencies.

OTOH, because the SD SB relationship is between two people, the usual rules do not have to apply. We can create whatever relationship we want. There are no rules on how much time I have to spend per hour, how long she stays, how intimate we have to be ETC.

The problems with the HDH then are a lack of intimacy and a standard performance. (Don't get me wrong. The standard performance can be toe curling.) The problems with the SB are dependence and drama.

The model Shyster John has with his SBs did not work for me because I did not have the free time that he did. With a few exceptions, I want my rendezvouses to be over in a few hours.

In my case, a SB-escort hybrid has worked well for me. In hindsight, I realize that I have taken the best part of the escort business (sex for money without the emotional drama) and the best part of the SB model (true and unique intimacy with another person) and combined them. If the SB is overly dependent or greedy, I have sent her packing.

I have found a lot of women who want to have sex for money, but they want to be more selective in whom they see and not be labeled as an escort. These women make ideal SBs and FWIW, I think the number of said women is growing.

Again, I am just one guy. Still, you have to wonder how many men are going to file the same path that I have, discover these women, and start using the SB as a more intimate type of escort.

Ok. I see where the issue lies now. Your interpretation of an HDH is not the same as mine. I base mine, generally, on the ladies that around on the HDH forum on ASPD. Some of these lades are still around, some are not.
General commonalities were:

They had a minimum time of 4hrs at a rate well above $2k

They had no reviews

To cultivate a reassuring (and therefore relaxing) experience it was often grounded in reality. These women would often share a high degree of personal information about themselves (that went far beyond just their real names) and would even introduce their friends to these men and sometimes family

These women by default of price and repeat clientele were very low volume.

These are not typical characteristics of women operating at a lower rate level or a higher volume level. Your own interpretation of an HDH seems to differ. That's fine, it's not an absolute BUT I think most folks on here from back then think of many of those women when they speak of an HDH.

So back to issue at hand. If an HDH is to a certain degree providing similar experiences as the SB...why can they charge so much more?

A man can have much more freedom with an HDH than an SB

A man can have an exclusive relationshiph an HDH without the dram of which you speak

A man can repeat over and over and over with an HDH,till getting to know her on a deeper level each time, without any to anything ongoing (and a true SB/SD joining is an ongoing relationship..even if it limited)

A man can quickly look for an HDH without having to wade through piles of ads and can bypass any sort of interview process.

Whilst none of this may appeal to you, for some men it holds a hell of a lot of value for which they are willing to pay.

Most men at that level are not seeing multiple womer do they have a desire to ditch and switch because boundaries are not clearly defined. Most women at that level don't see multiple men and for the boundaries (of a relationship that is grounded largely in reality and not fantasy) expect some degree of inflated income for the higher than would be normal access into their very real lives.

C

[Katy Alexander]

So first me, and Ed nearly get blown up( We live in San Bruno) Then I spend the next two weeks convinced that I have the swine flew. I finally return to my happy healthy self only to log on eccie to see that you guys are still arguing about the demise of the HDH, that is if anyone could figure out what one is in the first place.I feel that life has finally returned to normal

[Guest083011]

Originally Posted by Becky

I finally return to my happy healthy self only to log on eccie to see that you guys are still arguing about the demise of the HDH, that is if anyone could figure out what one is in the first place. I feel that life has finally returned to normal

Jus' doin' our job ma'am. How's Ed doing; no swine flu for him?

[Katy Alexander]

Originally Posted by SR Only

Jus' doin' our job ma'am. How's Ed doing; no swine flu for him?

Ed wants to know if he qualifies as a high dollar houndand exactly what is a high dollar hound, and have their glory days been numbered and are sales at Petco currently down, and how does all of this relate to him, and where his next bone is coming from.

Or should he just come to his senses , and become a sugar puppy.

[Guest083011]

Originally Posted by Becky

Or should he just come to his senses, and become a sugar puppy.

Your his sugar bitch.

[John Bull]

Wonderful description Camille. Much better than mine.

Sydney, your description of the base clientele seems reasonable and given the likely rarity of the HDH model that Camille describes, one could expect that there would be sufficient numbers of potential clients to keep the ladies quite comfortable without the ladies having to advertise or see many per month.

[Rudyard K]

I'm curios Becky. Obviously, ED is a high point in you life. So, he can't have been named on just a whim.

So, who was/is "ED"?

[Camille]

Originally Posted by John Bull

Wonderful description Camille. Much better than mine.

Sydney, your description of the base clientele seems reasonable and given the likely rarity of the HDH model that Camille describes, one could expect that there would be sufficient numbers of potential clients to keep the ladies quite comfortable without the ladies having to advertise or see many per month.

I'm surprised (but thankful) you could follow it with all the missing words and letters JB. I have NO IDEA why wireless is so hit and miss in my place, but its annoying as hell. An HDH wouldn't put up with this shit lol.

C xxx