I know its not football...but...

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

So the grads at the Harvard B school, the Wharton B School aren't highly recruited? Stern B School at NYU? Give me a fuckin' break.

Maybe you should take a break

You miss the point of the story/survey whatever the hell it is. It isn't "Which school produces the brightest/most talented students" it is "Which schools do you (corporate recruiter) like to recruit at?" The two aren't always the same.

Besides, after banking and consulting get done with say HBS & Wharton there isn't much left to go around (numbers wise)

[Camille]

Don't forget also that HBS, MIT grads etc generally command higher salaries. Recruiters know this economy cannot sustain the kind of salaries that HBS grads were commanding on graduation just 4 years ago..which was $100K plus. Recruiters have to work harder and smarter now to find someone of equal capability for lesser money. The days of being able to free-wheel into interviews with an HBS cert in hand are gone. It will be interesting to see what the long term impact of this type of recruitment has on the school in general. Now is the time to think REALLY hard about how much $$ you are willing to spend on your education because the return on investment has, and will continue to, change.

Camille

[Texas Contrarian]

In today's world of leaner budgets it's a real delight to find a gem in the rough.

The best graduates of state universities are just as smart and are likely to serve just as well as the best Harvard B-school whiz kid, and probably with much less sense of entitlement. They might stick around a little longer, too.

I read somewhere that a few recruiters even took cues from the world of sports. Back in the 1960s, Dallas Cowboys talent scout Gil Brandt pioneered the process of scouring the land for undiscovered talent. As a result, the Cowboys were able to snag Cliff Harris and Drew Pearson, both from small colleges, and both of whom went undrafted. Nobody had any idea how good they were. Had their talents been displayed by major programs such as UT, USC, or Ohio State, they likely would have been 1st-round draft choices.

And some executives are concerned that the typical Harvard B-school whiz kid's sense of entitlement might keep going and going and going, sort of like the Energizer Bunny.

Possible conversation five years after a Harvard whiz kid's hire:

HWK: "Well, I've done a great job, and as I'm sure you realize, I've made the firm a lot of money."

Boss: "Really? I'm not so sure. We're in the middle of your review and will get back to you soon."

A few days go by.

HWK: "If you wish to retain me, please note that I will require a 15% salary enhancement."

Boss: "Don't think so! 3% -- that's all we can do."

HWK: "But remember, I went to Harvard!"

Boss: "Oh, yeah. Damn lucky thing for you, too! It will look good on your resume, which you'll need to start updating as of today."

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

So the grads at the Harvard B school, the Wharton B School aren't highly recruited? Stern B School at NYU? Give me a fuckin' break.

The article was about undergrads.

[WTF]

Gig'em Aggies!

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

The article was about undergrads.

I'm curious, what percentage of kids go on the job market these days without going to graduate school. I'm in a field where a professional degree is mandatory as are my two kids. The idea of looking for a job after a bachelor's degree is something that I never even thought about. Are there very many positions in industry, outside of engineering, for folks without a graduate degree these days?

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

I'm curious, what percentage of kids go on the job market these days without going to graduate school. I'm in a field where a professional degree is mandatory as are my two kids. The idea of looking for a job after a bachelor's degree is something that I never even thought about. Are there very many positions in industry, outside of engineering, for folks without a graduate degree these days?

If you took all students receiving a bachelors degree and asked if they started post graduate work within 12 months it would be a real small % on an all in basis...(not that I could give you an quant # on this)

Speaking to industry, which for the sake of discussion I'll define as Fortune 500 Corporate. Very many? Jobs = yes. Great/Fast Track jobs? = fewer/very competitive

You have to remember one of the largest undergraduate majors is "business" -- and for the most part a BA/BS in Business doesn't go directly to Business School (MBA).

As an aside I spent a number of years recruiting [not as an HR person but as a hiring manager] for companies that fit this bill and I will say that the shift this article points out was consistent with our shift in strategy. We partnered with a few targeted Universities, some on this list, some not; spent time on campus...events...got to know faculty....etc and went after the best of their best and it was very successful. In considering changes our HR group did a very thorough analysis of every hire we'd made over recent history: what school? what was their progression within the company? attrition rate? etc. MBA hires were included in this mix. But the HR folks were able to support the shift with data based upon our own experiences; not what some magazine or newspaper survey said. Candidly, this data was what made the chages acceptable to our folks that were alums at some of the schools we were leaving. All things being equal we'd all like our alma mater in the recruiting mix at our firm, right?

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

I'm curious, what percentage of kids go on the job market these days without going to graduate school.

I have no idea, but I would bet that it is most...and that it wouldn't even be close.

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Are there very many positions in industry, outside of engineering, for folks without a graduate degree these days?

Well, off the top of my head...

Retail sales positions.
Retail managment positions
Sales positions in various industrys
Distribution management positions.
Residential construction management positions
Industrial constructon managment positions
Property management positions
Manufacturing management positions
Retail banking
Commercial banking
Various oil & gas management positions
Transportation positions
Agricultural management positions
Parks & Wildlife management positions
Health care positions
Human resources positions

Just to name a few. For someone who purports to fight for the masses...you don't know much about us.

[Camille]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

I'm curious, what percentage of kids go on the job market these days without going to graduate school. I'm in a field where a professional degree is mandatory as are my two kids. The idea of looking for a job after a bachelor's degree is something that I never even thought about. Are there very many positions in industry, outside of engineering, for folks without a graduate degree these days?

I have no idea in the US. Outside of the US, yes absolutely. Grad degrees are the minority in the UK..but that's because med school/law degrees start at 18. Whilst a medical degree would be considered a grad degree..a law degree is not.