Tax Cut

[jac01]

Originally Posted by catnipdipper

The rich might pay more in total taxes but they are also able to use the system for avoidance, sheltering/hiding income in offshore or Swiss accounts, hire the finest, most expensive tax accountants and lawyers and write off the expenses.

Which leads me to ask, how much more productive could the achievers in society be if they did not have to spend so much money on the above tax-avoidance strategies, which provide nothing to the economy other than income to the industries that exist to help Americans comply with the onerous tax code. I am a supporter of the FairTax, which would be a big step in stopping the granting of tax-advantaged favors to politicians' favored interest groups and thus weaken the power of the Washington politicians.

www.fairtax.org

[john_galt]

I'll ask catnipdipper again; what is rich? and a follow up, what percentage of our income should the government be allowed to collect in taxes from any American?

[ICTguy32]

Originally Posted by kcmark

The facts are that the rich, those that make over 250k have an effective tax rate of 15 percent...which is lower than they tax rate everyone else pays....
the tax cuts were implemented with the idea that the rich would invest the money in to buisnesses...well if they had done that for the last 10 years then we wouldnt me in the mess we are in....remember this mess didnt start on 1/21/09 it started on 1/21/01 under bush and company...
it will take longer than 2 years to get out of it....

Those earning 250k or more only pay 15%. Really? Please show me that so I can direct my clients who write quarterly tax payment checks larger than my annual salary from the accounting firm.

And by the way, just because you earn 250k or more a year doesn't make you "rich". Most of the clients I have that earn compensation that high or above are attorneys, physicians or business owners... and each of those spend enormous amounts of money every year on things that the average salary or hourly wage earner never pays. (Malpractice insurance, E&O coverage, etc) After earning 250k and paying taxes, insurance, and expenses, they are then typically paying large sums for the student loans from law school or medical school.

It is basic economic theory - when you increase taxes taken by the government the amount of money left in the economy to invest or spend in the private sector decreases. So, when taxes go up - the velocity of money decreases.

The best solution for the class warfare - "soak the rich" attitude is a flat tax. A fixed percentage that every wage earning American would have to pay, no exception.

[Miss_Mya]

Originally Posted by KCguy32

The best solution for the class warfare - "soak the rich" attitude is a flat tax. A fixed percentage that every wage earning American would have to pay, no exception.

Some one recently introduced me to a singer named Ray Stevens and I found most of his songs to be funny and one that applies to this. To quote the song, "If ten percent is good enough for Jesus then it ought to be enough for Uncle Sam."

As little as I know about about taxes (other than I pay them) I would agree that a flat tax would be an easy solution, it would make the tax laws easier, save all the man hours required for taxes, and make life for us little people easier to budget our income. IMO.

[swarmyone]

Needing to make a little extra money, I went to work part-time for one of those large tax preparation offices. I was utterly horrified when started to see some of the "refunds" coming in. Due to the numerous tax "credits", a large number of low wage earners were getting huge "refunds". It was not uncommon for someone earning $20,000 with 2 or 3 kids to receive a refund of $7000 or more. That's bullshit...their federal tax withholdings were just over $1000. Therefore the "refund" is actually just a $6000 tax free welfare check.

I actually quit when we had one guy come in, had earned income of $2800 (at least that is all that was reported), claimed two of his kids and two of his sister's kids as dependenents. He received a "refund" of $13,300! Now there is no way in hell that this guy supported himself...much less a family of 5 on his income of $2800. He obviously played the system and left it up to chumps like me give him a hand out.

The worst part is one of my clients is a woman that I know socially. She is rather outspoken politically and constantly bitches about paying taxes. (She's one of those ignorant ass Obamamaniacs who only thinks she has to pay so much is because those evil "rich" people get tax cuts from Republicans). I prepared her taxes. I know for a fact that she didn't pay ANY federal or state taxes. In fact, she recieved a federal "refund" of over $8000! Her earned income was $15,000...she has two kids. She didn't pay taxes...she got a charity hand out...but she's so damn ignorant she complains about paying taxes.

A flat-tax would be a fair tax. But we will never see it in this country because it would require everyone to pay their fair share. Not likely to happen because of the welfare mentality that has consumed our country over the past 70 years.

[Guest052813-01]

Best tax system ever proposed. On the back of a postcard have the following:

Line 1 - What did you make ==>
Line 2 - Multiply by 10% ==>
Line 3 - Pay it ==>

It's fair since everyone pays the same rate. For those who say that it isn't fair because the rich should pay more, I say "bullshit" - the government shouldn't be Robin Hood.

[catnipdipper]

Galt;

I am going to say that a definition of rich is already in the tax code. It is those situations and people that are in the highest bracket. I think the expiration of the Bush level for the "rich" is a 3+% increase?

I have lived long enough to be in every bracket and have slipped on purpose out of the top bracket.

Here are some things that I have learned about money:

I have worked with a lot of successful people. There were always discussions about working for the mysterious $X factor. "If I ever get to $X I will quit" Well it seems that as soon as $X was achieved it became 2$X. It always seemed to increase as time went on and more and more new toys and purchases came along and the life style changed. I jut found it curious to watch.

I have observed that if you don't have a lot of money and you suddenly get it then you should have to attend some kind of a mandatory schooling about how to handle it. OMG liberals become conservative radicals about keeping all of the money that they and they alone produced. Unless you buy a lucky lottery ticket I promise you that your success is not by you and you alone. I have seen a lot of newly minted greedy, selfish, assholes as a result. It should be achieved with gratitude and class.

If you run a business and your only focus is profits then you will fail. If you run your business and provide a product or service that is second to none and that remains your focus then the end result of those efforts will be profits. Much like the exhaust from a car's engine.

When you make money some people begin to think that they now have a God like power to solve people's problems. It is like Vegas to me. If you can't afford to lose it then don't play.

I believe it is healthier overall for a person to "work to live and not live to work." It is also healthy to be able to define yourself in ways other than what it is you do for work. I walk away as fast as possible when this occurs as they are generally very shallow people.

We are all so very lucky to live, work, and prosper in this country. In the worst of times it is full of opportunity for those that see it and pursue it. If taxes based on the rewards of these efforts are the price then we should pay it gratefully and recognize the circumstances in which we got it.

I am willing by the way to eliminate the estate tax and it would be a decent trade off to allow the higher bracket to expire.

A man's riches are a whole lot more than money but a lot of people don't seem to see it.

This country is about freedom and opportunity and we should happily pay our share for the benefits we get from it.

[Omahan]

I would much rather see a sales tax to replace income tax. That way you wouldn't need to keep any tax records, you would never need H & R Block - life would be good. Corporations would still need accountants for SEC and shareholder reporting but the tax accountants would not be needed.

Some people say that a sales tax is unfair to poor people because they spend every dollar they get but that could be fixed. You could have an amount that everyone gets as a "tax refund" lets say $5,000 per year. The millionaire will hardly notice it thus leaving his NET sales tax rate almost equal to the full rate. A person who makes and spends $20,000 a year at a 15% sales tax rate would have paid only $3,000 a year in sales tax thus coming out with a net $2,000 spiff. Another way to help the low income is to exempt some items such as food and rent. It can work and can be made fair.

[jac01]

Originally Posted by Omahan

Some people say that a sales tax is unfair to poor people because they spend every dollar they get but that could be fixed. You could have an amount that everyone gets as a "tax refund" lets say $5,000 per year. The millionaire will hardly notice it thus leaving his NET sales tax rate almost equal to the full rate. A person who makes and spends $20,000 a year at a 15% sales tax rate would have paid only $3,000 a year in sales tax thus coming out with a net $2,000 spiff. Another way to help the low income is to exempt some items such as food and rent. It can work and can be made fair.

The FairTax actually addresses this by giving everyone a "prebate" check at the beginning of the month that would cover the cost of paying the FairTax on the purchases of life's necessities (food, clothes, etc) up to the federal poverty level. If someone chooses to take their prebate check and go to the casino or liquor store with it, well that's their free choice, but it is also their own gaddamn fault for being irresponsible.

[john_galt]

I see that catdipnipper couldn't give me a number either and he forgot the percentage. nuff said!

I also have a friend that processes taxes for a big tax preparation firm located in KCMO and she has told me people receiving huge refunds in the thousands and yet they pay no taxes essentially. She also tells me that a number of these ungrateful wretches complain that they didn't get enough!

[Cheaper2buyit]

I agree with the fair tax or flat tax thing. John I say if you make about 500k to a mill a year you are rich. But anybody that makes 300 & under can shit there money away like anybody else that makes like 40 a year hope thats what you wanted to here John.

[catnipdipper]

Passed under Gerald Ford and a Republican Congress. Expanded by Regan, Bush 1 and Bush 2.

Hidden under Tax incentives rather than welfare.

[catnipdipper]

Galt;

Being rich is a state of mind and a satisfaction of one's lot in life.

Some people just bitch about everything.

[jac01]

Originally Posted by catnipdipper

Being rich is a state of mind and a satisfaction of one's lot in life.

As is the difference between being broke and being poor. Poor is a state of mind. I may have been broke once, but I have never been poor.

[catnipdipper]

Jac01 I could not agree more.

When I wuz poor I did not know it.