Smoking, same rights as free speech?

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by Doove

I ain't Tushy, but i'll answer if you respond to my point about whether or not OSHA or the board of health would allow, in a workplace or business area catering to the public, the equivalent of an environment created in a smoked filled bar or restaurant under any other circumstances - without proper precautions being required (such as masks).

Actually Dopey, OSHA was involved in litigation about workplace environment. And the anti smoking Nazis ended up settleing with OSHA wherein OSHA agreed not to enter regulations regarding air quality in the workplace related to smoking. The anti smokers wanted such a settlement because the air quality standards that would have been implemented by OSHA...which were in line with normal work environment air quality standards...would not have nixed smoking in the workplace.

So, for the anti smoking nazis...no standard was better than a standard that would have allowed smoking.

This is about emotional BS...always has been. Never really about scientific fact.

[charlestudor2005]

RK--Isn't it odd how everything you oppose is a manifestation of something from the Nazis?

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Actually Dopey

Ok, so maybe i got a little ahead of myself. But seriously, how old are you?

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Doove

Ok, so maybe i got a little ahead of myself. But seriously, how old are you?

Older than dirt.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Older than dirt.

That's the problem then. You remember the "good ole days" when there were no laws, regulations or norms. That's why you find them such an anathema. However, just because it's new, doesn't mean it's bad. I know you object to this idea, but you need to expand your mind, and bring it into the current century, much less the current decade.

[BammBamm]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

This is about emotional BS...always has been. Never really about scientific fact.

Exactly.

Facing a painful death by emphysema my father took his own life. He was a applied mathematician, one of the smartest people I have ever known. He was also one of the most violent. I hated that motherfucker.

Both parents smoked. My brothers and I had to endure endless car rides with "the window cracked" in spite of begging for relief. And a house full of stench and second hand smoke. We were athletes and one was a wind musician, and it pissed us off.

The violence and the forced smoking only abated when we got big enough and old enough to be a serious physical threat to ol' mom and pop. A smoked-out middle aged man and woman looking 10 years beyond their age, waking up in the middle of the night to their kids standing over them, staring at them - pretty fucking scary, wouldn't you say? They got the message, several times.

When I can smell your smoke, I don't fucking care about the fucking "scientific facts". Statistics is not a branch of mathematics. Statistics doesn't even qualify as a soft science, and in any case statistics describe what other people experienced in the past, not what I am experiencing in the present, nor what I am likely to experience in the future. You don't get to pick up one end of the correlation-vs-causality stick without picking up the other.

The site you post is full of shit. It sounds just like the bullshit "logic" I heard my parents foam at the mouth about for decades.

When I can smell your smoke, I will move to clear air or I will put out your cigarette for you.

Obscene personal attacks will not be tolerated. Fair warning. JB

[Doove]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Older than dirt.

He's sure cranky enough. I'll leave it at that.

Now excuse me while i go to a restaurant and masturbate. Oh wait, the government says i can't.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by Doove

He's sure cranky enough. I'll leave it at that.

Now excuse me while i go to a restaurant and masturbate. Oh wait, the government says i can't.

Like that would stop you.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by BammBamm

And you can bet it will be emotional, motherfucker.

Someone has anger management issues.

[Ansley]

Originally Posted by BammBamm

The violence and the forced smoking only abated when we got big enough and old enough to be a serious physical threat to ol' mom and pop. A smoked-out middle aged man and woman looking 10 years beyond their age, waking up in the middle of the night to their kids standing over them, staring at them - pretty fucking scary, wouldn't you say? They got the message, several times.

Please tell me that you aren't trying to deal with your parental issues on a hooker board?

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by BammBamm

Exactly.

Facing a painful death by emphysema my father took his own life. He was a applied mathematician, one of the smartest people I have ever known. He was also one of the most violent. I hated that motherfucker.

Both parents smoked. My brothers and I had to endure endless car rides with "the window cracked" in spite of begging for relief. And a house full of stench and second hand smoke. We were athletes and one was a wind musician, and it pissed us off.

The violence and the forced smoking only abated when we got big enough and old enough to be a serious physical threat to ol' mom and pop. A smoked-out middle aged man and woman looking 10 years beyond their age, waking up in the middle of the night to their kids standing over them, staring at them - pretty fucking scary, wouldn't you say? They got the message, several times.

When I can smell your smoke, I don't fucking care about the fucking "scientific facts". Statistics is not a branch of mathematics. Statistics doesn't even qualify as a soft science, and in any case statistics describe what other people experienced in the past, not what I am experiencing in the present, nor what I am likely to experience in the future. You don't get to pick up one end of the correlation-vs-causality stick without picking up the other.

The site you post is full of shit. It sounds just like the bullshit "logic" I heard my parents foam at the mouth about for decades.

When I can smell your smoke, I will move to clear air or I will put out your cigarette for you.

And you can bet it will be emotional, motherfucker.

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Someone has anger management issues.

Sounds like more than anger management issues. And emotional? Hell, I'm getting kind of choked up and teary eyed just thinking of all this. It's always the big talkers that are mostly about "What I'm gonna do"...and little about doing. I particularly liked the statistics and science comments. Lots of words put end to end with no meaning whatsoever. I've had tougher debates with my granddaughter.

Yep, I feel older than dirt. But you'd probably be better off to move towards clear air. Try to put my cig out...you're liable to draw back a stump. That's what happens when you tangle with an old fart.

C'mon Dopey. You're now up to some 15-16 posts in this thread alone, and still haven't been able to articulate a position. Just taking shots at others doesn't show much...well, except your bare ass.

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

RK--Isn't it odd how everything you oppose is a manifestation of something from the Nazis?

Actually the main things I get upset about are folks who play on others emotions...not based on any real facts. That's pretty much what the Nazi's did. So, I guess to me it fits.

[Bella_HHD]

Originally Posted by TxBrandy

Not to be argumentative here and this is just for the sake of the discussion. Did you not know that there would be smoking in the cigar bar? If you did know, why did you go in knowing how the smell would affect your belongings and your hair?

That was my first question - "Cigar Bar" would've been MY first clue

Originally Posted by TxBrandy

I agree that "majority of folks don’t smoke and we don’t’ want to be around it". I have no problem with a majority of public places being smoke free. I would however, like to have a choice. (Note to self: check and see if there is a cigar bar in my area)

Public places (like the DMV and offices where the general public have to go for one thing or another) should remain smoke free. Work places that cater to the public in that regard should also be smoke free. If as a non-smoker I were to be applying for a job somewhere, I would choose not to apply at a place that allows smoking. If it didn't bother me, I could work in either environment. Again, it would be my choice as to where I look for a job.[/quote]

Agreed and exactly how I'd writen it if I had the brains.

Brava.

B.

[Guest112113-3]

Decided to remove....

[Ansley]

Originally Posted by Woody of TX

Decided to remove....

Come on, I dare ya.