Nationalize BP

[Doove]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Barack Obama is a doctrinaire ideologue.

Sorry, but that's just an absurd comment. I suppose you're one of those who insists that if a media outlet doesn't act like Newsmax or Fox News, then that means it's liberal.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by WTF

Heaven forbid Obama tries to do that! History will be much kinder to Carter, than say.....ehhhh whats the name of the guy ya'll worship? Ole yea Reagan, Ronnie Reagan.

Somehow I really doubt that.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Somehow I really doubt that.

Well then, I feel better about my predication already.......

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by WTF

Good Lord , Jimmy Carter...the man who first wanted to wean us from oil dependency.

Actually, I was thinking of the Jimmy Carter who inherited a bad problem (inflation) and spent the first 2 1/2 years of his presidency making it far, far worse! (Just as Obama is doing with the bad fiscal outlook he inherited.)

Originally Posted by WTF

...the guy ya'll worship? Ole yea Reagan, Ronnie Reagan.

Oh, please. Worship?

We went through all this in another thread, remember? I said then that Reagan succeeded in some ways but failed to control the growth of spending, so he deserves a mixed report card.

Of course, I'm sure you were sad when he blew up your beloved 70% tax bracket!

Originally Posted by Doove

Sorry, but that's just an absurd comment...

Really?

First of all, please notice that I preceeded the quote snippet you gave with, "It seems to me." Am I not allowed to hold an opinion without seeing you characterize it as "absurd."

And just what might make me think that Obama is an ideologue? Could it perhaps have something to do with his headlong rush to expand the size, scope, and cost of government at a staggering rate, even though we can't even begin to afford it?

If that's not the hallmark of an ideologue, I don't know what is!

Originally Posted by Doove

I've got $100 that says it's also Orly Taitz's pet name for him too.

And what's with this bizarre birther obsession? Earlier in this thread, you tried to insinuate that any opposition to Obama's proposed policies is as unfounded as the beliefs held by that group. Now it seems that you're trying to do it again! Don't compartmentalize in that fashion. It's not only stupid; it's a cheap, gratuitous insult.

If you're not capable of debating the issues on their merits, please refrain from snide little jabs and condescending statements such as the ones you peppered me with a few dozen posts ago.

[oden]

The liberals are eating at Obama. He is going to be the most failed President since Carter. Anyone want to step up for Carter? I think the ghost of Carters' record is going to scare the hell out of American voters. We can't afford that situation now.

My biggest concern is a backlash that will push us into a war in the Middle East that we don't need to fight. I don't want
to see a knee jerk response by a week administration causing an election year war, but this is looking more and more possible.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by oden

. Anyone want to step up for Carter? I think the ghost of Carters' record is going to scare the hell out of American voters. We can't afford that situation now.

.

What situtation? Be more specific. Carter put Volker in at the Fed, without him who knows. Reagan was at least smart enough to keep him and his policy's in place. But without Saudi Arabia flooding the worlds oil market trying to thwart the Soviet Unions foray into Afghanistan who knows how it would have played out. It killed the oil guys down here in the eighties but set in motion a robust recovery along with the Soviets demise. (Not that they went anywhere) A lack of History in this forum seems to be the norm. Carter wasn't near as bad as he is made out and Ronnie not near as good. In a market based economy , presidents fortune rise and fall on the business cycle. Reagan and Clinton caught some pretty good waves. Carter and Bush one not so much. Bush two almost made it to the beach without the cycle crashing down on his purity lil head. Obama is set to ride a decent on, despite Captain Midnight dire predictions.

Originally Posted by oden

My biggest concern is a backlash that will push us into a war in the Middle East that we don't need to fight. I don't want
to see a knee jerk response by a week administration causing an election year war, but this is looking more and more possible.

Yea .....Obama sure seems to be holding hands in lockstep with the Israelis What ya smoking this early in the morning?!

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by WTF

What situtation? Be more specific. Carter put Volker in at the Fed, without him who knows. Reagan was at least smart enough to keep him and his policy's in place. But without Saudi Arabia flooding the worlds oil market trying to thwart the Soviet Unions foray into Afghanistan who knows how it would have played out. It killed the oil guys down here in the eighties but set in motion a robust recovery along with the Soviets demise. (Not that they went anywhere) A lack of History in this forum seems to be the norm. Carter wasn't near as bad as he is made out and Ronnie not near as good.

WTF..so you're mixing up some stuff

Carter instituted price controls....trying to beat inflation but also yielding to his idiotic liberal, government knows best, anti free market side ..he made it worse..much worse...do you remember lines at the gas pump? i do..long lines...circling the block...down the street...to get a few gallons of gas in your car...people were afraid to pass up a gas station that had gasoline...many stations were out by the middle of the month as they could only get so many gallons each month to sell.... CARTER was terrible..much worse than he is made out to be...

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

WTF..so you're mixing up some stuff

Carter instituted price controls....trying to beat inflation but also yielding to his idiotic liberal, government knows best, anti free market side ..he made it worse..much worse...do you remember lines at the gas pump? i do..long lines...circling the block...down the street...to get a few gallons of gas in your car...people were afraid to pass up a gas station that had gasoline...many stations were out by the middle of the month as they could only get so many gallons each month to sell.... CARTER was terrible..much worse than he is made out to be...

As I said earlier, some of you would way be better off learning history rather than trying to teaching it. I lived through this shit and actually took time to read about just WTF was going on. Sean Hannitys talking points do not count as a history lesson!

Richard Nixon had imposed price controls on domestic oil, which had helped cause shortages that led to gasoline lines during the 1973 Oil Crisis. Gasoline controls were repealed, but controls on domestic US oil remained. The Jimmy Carter administration began a phased deregulation of oil prices on April 5, 1979, when the average price of crude oil was US$15.85 per barrel (42 US gallons). Over the next 12 months the price of crude oil rose to $39.50 per barrel (its all time highest real price until March 7, 2008.)[6] Deregulating domestic oil price controls allowed domestic U.S. oil output to rise sharply from the large Prudhoe Bay fields, while oil imports fell sharply. Hence, long lines appeared at gas stations, as they had six years earlier during the 1973 oil crisis.

[nevergaveitathought]

dont have the time right now

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Am I not allowed to hold an opinion without seeing you characterize it as "absurd."

Absurd is absurd, just because it is characterized as an opinion does not insulate it from being absurd.

You of course are allowed to be as absurd as you like!

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

And just what might make me think that Obama is an ideologue? Could it perhaps have something to do with his headlong rush to expand the size, scope, and cost of government at a staggering rate, even though we can't even begin to afford it?

If that's not the hallmark of an ideologue, I don't know what is!

If actions are the sign ....then every president in the last forty years has expanded government ...they all are ideologues! What are ya'll arguing here. Poisonous snakes have venom!

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

dont have the time right now

You just show up when you have more time big boy and we will began a history lesson. Until then you just keep listening to Sean Hanitty.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Carter was the worst president other than Wilson.

[pjorourke]

Carter was not only one of the worst Presidents, he is the absolute worst ex-President ever. That man needs to learn to sit down and shut up. Nobody give a flying fuck what he thinks anymore. (Not that we cared that much when he was President.)

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by WTF

A lack of History in this forum seems to be the norm.

Well, if what you meant to say was that a lack of knowledge of history is characteristic of this forum, I'll certainly agree with you there!

Originally Posted by WTF

...Carter put Volker [sic] in at the Fed, without him who knows.

Carter was prevailed upon to put Volcker in the Fed chair, with a mandate to crush inflation and restore sound money, but only after spending two-thirds of his term standing idly by while the problem spiralled out of control. Early in his term, he replaced the very bad Arthur Burns with the even worse Bill Miller. The Carter Treasury and the Miller Fed thought they could stimulate exports and growth by means of fiscal policy and ultra-easy money. All that stimulated was a dollar collapse and more inflation. As I recall, the dollar dropped by a third against the D-mark in 1978, and even more than that against the yen.

Then the Carter Treasury responded with a disastrous "dollar rescue package", which was like putting a Band-Aid on an injury that requires surgery. It involved selling some of our gold stock and borrowing from the IMF. Needless to say, all that did was kick the can down the road, setting the stage for a worse crisis.

I think that if he'd made the tough decisions early in his presidency, Carter would have stood a good chance to benefit from the restoration of sound money and economic recovery. But he simply spent 2 1/2 years making things much worse.

Originally Posted by WTF

If actions are the sign ....then every president in the last forty years has expanded government ...

Yeah, but nothing like this!

We're already looking at trillion-dollar deficits for years to come. Adding massive amounts of new pork and entitlement programs doesn't look like a very wise idea now, does it?

Originally Posted by WTF

Obama is set to ride a decent on [sic], despite Captain Midnight's dire predictions.

It's not as simple as that!

All this out-of-control spending is like a huge meal that must be digested. Everyone knows we are looking at very large tax increases, and that the only way you can really pay for all this largesse is by implementing a VAT. That would obviously yank huge amounts of money out of our consumer-dependent economy and stifle prospects for sustainable recovery. Big increases in government spending make the economy worse, not better. The eventual climb-down from ZIRP will also be a painful process for the economy.

Obama is emulating Carter in one respect -- that is, actively undertaking efforts that will do a lot of damage.

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Carter was not only one of the worst Presidents, he is the absolute worst ex-President ever. That man needs to learn to sit down and shut up. Nobody give a flying fuck what he thinks anymore. (Not that we cared that much when he was President.)

Hard to argue with that.

He's also shown time and time again that he's a vile, anti-Semitic bigot.

He should have just restricted himself to his efforts involving Habitat for Humanity, where he actually did some good.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by WTF

He'll be re-elected and you two will be eating crow , again.



Obama did not cause this spill. The best and the brightest are working to shut this thing down...all else is just politics.

I honestly just can’t see him getting re-elected. To quote Clinton’s campaign manager, “It’s the economy stupid; it’s the economy.” I’m not a Republican; I’m a left of center Independent. I voted for Clinton. I just don’t see Obama or the Democratic congress doing anything but spending more money than we can print. Later this year the stimulus money runs out. What then? We’ll have a big pile of debt that will take forever to re-pay and the economy will still be in the dumpster.

Did you know that the new employment figures are reflective of the temporary, low paying, funny math census jobs? It’s a factoid that the census people are hired for training. Then they are terminated once the training is over. Then they are re-hired to actually do their job. So this temporary job makes a click on the new jobs created list twice. Cool.

I didn’t say he caused the spill. I said he spun the resulting damage, and he did it, according to the article, on information that the White House knew was incorrect or, to put it another way, low-balled on purpose. Change we need? Sounds like politics as usual.