Provider's Phones

[Rogersguy]

Situation: LE arrest a pimp or provider and now have access to the numbers on their phones. LE believes those numbers to be of those that used the pimp/provider's services.

Without being caught in the act of solicitation, are there and can there be any legal ramifications for the johns whose numbers are stored on the phone?

[ShysterJon]

Probably not. Under your scenario, they're just numbers on a phone, nothing more. The numbers may be some proof of contact between a provider or manager and a hobbyist, but mere contact isn't much proof of prostitution.

However, a problem may arise when LE seizes an arrested provider's phone and a female undercover officer starts making calls to the numbers saved in the phone, or sending texts, to set up a sting. The hobbyist may think it's the provider, not a cop. That happens, but rarely. I'd suggest a hobbyist be extra cautious if a provider he knows only casually calls or texts him out of the blue to set up a meet.

[Mazomaniac]

One caveat to Shyster's response:

I have seen a parolee get pinched after his number showed up on somebody's cell phone log. That was a drug case so the stakes were different, but if you're on supervised release you can end up back in the dumpster just for calling the wrong people.

Cheers,
Mazo.

[ShysterJon]

I guess that would be violating the condition that the parolee "[a]void persons or places of disreputable or harmful character." Of course, that would bar him from going to a Tea Party rally, too. ;-)

[Rogersguy]

Thank you for your responses guys. I was reading on other threads where providers were arrested and the hobbyists were very concerned about their numbers being stored on the providers phone.

It also got me wondering about the celebrities or public figures that have been known to have been with a provider. To my knowledge, none of them have been arrested after the fact.

Or even in drug dealer cases. LE knows who the drug dealers but can't make an arrest without evidence.

[Dstorm]

No, there is no crime in calling someone.
Hell, via family connections my phone has the numbers of a murderer and a federal trafficker (two seperate people).

Like shyster said, I would be leery of any call or text from a provider where she discussed money and or acts.

In the past, I have been ok with a few providers contacting me, but I was explicit, no discussions, just ask me if I can get together with you, and I say "yes", "no", or suggest another time, that is it.
The minute they start to talk about anything more, my phone suddenly goes dead and happens to delete their number in the process

[GneissGuy]

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

I guess that would be violating the condition that the parolee "[a]void persons or places of disreputable or harmful character." Of course, that would bar him from going to a Tea Party rally, too. ;-)

Or the state capitol, any courtroom, etc.

This is yet another case where your mantra should be STFU. Even if you call a hooker and talk to her 6 times a week, that doesn't mean you're engaged in a crime with her. Don't say anything and let your lawyer do the talking if necessary.

However, they may well try to blackmail you into talking by threatening to talk with your wife, SO, family, employer, neighbors, etc.

[KlassyKelliAnn]

I do not keep numbers stored in my provider phone at any time. If there is no record of any information it makes things a little safer. You add up all those "little safer" strategies and one can eliminate some (not all) but some of the risk involved when it comes to these types of situations.


KKA

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by KlassyKelliAnn

I do not keep numbers stored in my provider phone at any time. If there is no record of any information it makes things a little safer. You add up all those "little safer" strategies and one can eliminate some (not all) but some of the risk involved when it comes to these types of situations.


KKA

A quick subpoena to your cell phone company for your call records would negate your strategy...sorry Kelli. But the previous comments are correct. Just because a phone number is in a phone and calls have been made is NOT proof of any illegal activity.

The bottom line for Providers and Hobbysts alike is to acquire an anonymous "hobby" phone, purchased with cash. Simply buy refill minutes, again with cash to replenish. These are available virtually everywhere these days. If the worst were to happen, the phone numbers LE would try to trace simply lead nowhere.

[KlassyKelliAnn]

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

The bottom line for Providers and Hobbysts alike is to acquire an anonymous "hobby" phone, purchased with cash. Simply buy refill minutes, again with cash to replenish. These are available virtually everywhere these days. If the worst were to happen, the phone numbers LE would try to trace simply lead nowhere.

And that is the exact type of provider cell I have and use. I call it the "throw away phone".

KKA

[Guest032514-1]

I'm with kelly. Every time I charge my play phone, I delete calls. I also make sure it's clean before every date. The only number that shows should be the number of the person I'm with. It's more effort on my part to try and remember numbers, but worth it to my peace of mind. I'm also pretty adamant that I do not make unsolicited calls. It's not foolproof, but it's better than saving anything.

I have heard of provider arrests where her phone would ring and the police would answer and try to set up a date/arrest. And where police have confiscated laptops and phones. This is when being part of a protective/proactive/professional community really helps. Incarcerated provider calls Good Samaritan. "I'm busted. They have my phone and my laptop." Good Samaritan gets the word out "So&so's contact number and email are compromised. Stay away for now."

I have heard of client "play phones" getting taken. And used. Guys, do you save numbers in your play phone? By name? If you do, please leave it in the car ok?

[BIG C]

I find it difficult to believe that someone had his parole revoked simply for making a phone call to someone.....Not saying that it didn't happen since I'm not privy to the case you're referring to, but that it's just difficult for me to believe that that was the sole reason for having his parole revoked.....Making a phone call is not a crime, and without more than that, they can't even prove that the guy didn't call a wrong number, which does happen on occasions.....Without more than that, they can't prove that he KNEW of said person's questionable character.....Further, without more than that, they can't even prove that HE was the one who made a phone call.....So my guess is that there is more to the story than your friend had his parole revoked because he made a phone call (or even a few phone calls) to a person of questionable reputation.....

And for the record, I've had a few occasions where I've been called by someone claiming to be LE and they've asked me about my relationship with XXX (i.e., how do you know this girl).....We found your name and number in her phone and that makes you a suspect, blah, blah, fucking blah.....I usually just tell whoever it is that I'm on the phone with to "kiss my ass" or "fuck off and die" since it's not their business how I know someone.....Yeah, they will do anything to threaten and frighten you into cooperating with their information gathering process such as telling you if you don't answer their questions and cooperate with them they'll issue a warrant for your arrest for hindering an investigation, ect., ect., ect.....By this time if I haven't already hung up on whoever it is, I generally tell them to go ahead and issue whatever warrant they want to issue, and by the time I'm through with them I'll own the town (btw, that's a bogus threat from me since I doubt any court will attach liability to the city from a situation like this, but if the cops can make bogus threats, then so can I).....Notice one thing though.....I never answered any questions that they ask.....IOW, SHUT THE FUCK UP ! ! ! ! !.....

Don't ever text anyone and use explicit language to set up an appt. and the only thing the cops will have is that you made a phone call to someone who you may have met at a local bar, or in a club, or something and she gave you this number to call her (which isn't a crime).....And one last thing here.....NEVER, EVER, EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF WHEN THE COPS CALL YOU ! ! ! ! !.....Whenever the LE has called me the first thing they do is ask "Who am I speaking with?".....WTF??!!??.....You called me (and usually from the busted provider's phone), I didn't call you and I never answer the question of "Who am I speaking with?" when someone calls me.....What a maroon.....

[GneissGuy]

Originally Posted by BIG C

Notice one thing though.....I never answered any questions that they ask.....IOW, SHUT THE FUCK UP ! ! ! ! !...

I think an important part of STFU is not to say anything to the police that can be claimed to be a lie. Lying to the cops can be a crime in itself. Even telling the truth can be a problem because they can claim you're lying and start another level of harassment based on that. Even if they can't prove it's a lie, it gives them another tool to use against you.

[LAVixian]

Big C *high five!*

[BIG C]

Originally Posted by GneissGuy

I think an important part of STFU is not to say anything to the police that can be claimed to be a lie. Lying to the cops can be a crime in itself. Even telling the truth can be a problem because they can claim you're lying and start another level of harassment based on that. Even if they can't prove it's a lie, it gives them another tool to use against you.

Well, I had a very good and detailed response here, but my connection to the net got bamboozled and it got lost somewhere in the great cyber space void.....Rather than re-type all that, I guess you guys n girls will have to settle for the RD version:

1: You have the right under the federal and state constitutions not to talk to any law enforcement agency beyond giving them the answers to quesions concerning your identity (i.e., your name, SSN, DOB, address, ect.).....However, if you do talk to law enforcement, then you have to tell them the truth, and cannot lie to them.....Federal and state statutes make it a crime to lie to the cops when they ask you any questions.....I never have been able to figure out why they can lie to you, no problem, but if you lie to them, it's a crime for which you can be imprisoned for upon conviction (just ask Marion Jones).....

2: I have said this over and over and over again, and will continue to say it.....In all my years of practice, I have never had a client make his case any worse than it already is by simply SHUTTING THE FUCK UP ! ! ! ! !.....OTOH, I have had plenty of clients who have sealed their fates from jumpstreet by either concocting a bullshit story for the cops and get fucked when the cops uncover their lie, or they simply confess to the crime and then find out that their confessions are used against them (gee, really ! ! ! ! !).....These are the ones who generally think they're smarter than everyone else and they'll be able to beat the rap because the dumb cops didn't read them their rights so my confession will be tossed out.....On TV that works because it makes for good TV drama.....In real life, unless there's a showing that the cops beat a confession out of you, or they withheld vital medication from you until you signed the confession, then it's going to be admitted and you're going to be a guest of the state for awhile.....

The most sure-fire way to make sure nothing you say WILL be used against you in a court of law is to not say anything......