Anti-Mexican?

[dirty dog]

"Kris Kobach helped write the law, and he came on Topeka radio to explain some things. An officer has to have to reason to suspect you are illegal, before asking for proof of legality...same standard applied if he wants to search for drugs, etc."

Crew your missing the point, they are presuming that all cops are racists and that they will be targeting hispanics. The fact that they assume that all cops are racists is in itself racisim, but thats a losing argument. The reality is almost every law on the books can be applied in a racist manner, we in society trust that the police will behave correctly and when they don't they are removed. I do not see the complaining about other laws but hey I am a racist anyway.

[Sens55]

Lacrew,

I might be able to help with that. To my knowledge, the Border Patrol have to catch them actually crossing the border, or a within a certain zone of the border. Once outside that zone the BP doesn't have jurisdiction.

When I went to Intelligence School in the Army (go ahead, laugh), we had one group that trained in Ground Surveillance Radar Operators (it was pretty new back then). For part of the "Graduation FTX", they would go to zones in Arizona, especially around Yuma. They'd have BP officers with them, and we provided security for them...yes, locked and loaded M-16's and M1911's, it was THAT dangerous, and they'd "light up" a zone and the BP would round them up.

In certain areas it looked like ants heading to a picnic. We'd all take turns watching these guys work. It was pretty amazing and REALLY opened my eyes. I had NO IDEA that many people were crossing. And we'd be out there for 2 or more weeks and EVERY NIGHT we'd find at least one infiltration route with anywhere from a couple to HUNDREDS of people. And, yes, there were some shots exchanged on a few occasions. Mostly them at us, as we were severely restricted in our Rules of Engagement. Oh, and this was in 1986! I can only imagine what it's like now.

I also remember that I told that story in college when we were discussing the issue. I had another student (a girl) SCREAM at me and call me a NAZI! She was saying things like "I bet you're so PROUD of yourself stopping all those poor people trying to better their lives!". I was like "Hey Sister, I don't make the rules, I'm just playing by them. If you don't like it, call your Senator! But don't you EVER call me a NAZI!" At the time, like most military, we are sufficiently disengaged from the politics of it all. Just following LAWFUL orders. I asked her point blank if they're so "poor", how did they end up with fully automatic rifles and had NO PROBLEM shooting at us!

There have actually been instances of the Mexican Army pulling patrols into our zones! Usually they are performing security for their drug running pals. But it's not an isolated incident. We're talking fully armed combat patrols coming into our country to secure illicit trade. Many of those "poor people", to pay their debts to the smugglers, are "mules" packing dope for the cartels. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's not real. Phoenix is on an International list as one of the most dangerous places to be kidnapped in the WORLD! And it's not soccer moms doing the shooting and the kidnapping. The same people that help the illegals cross our border use the same means to put in the criminal element, as well as the drugs. And while the average immigrant is really just looking for a better life and has no dealing with this, allowing the smuggling of the people across the border facilitates LOTS of other illegal activity as well.

[Sens55]

I just received an interesting email making a pretty good analogy of all of this. If you went to a sporting event and got to your seat that you paid for and someone was sitting in your seat, what would you do? Wouldn't you think that you'd call an usher, produce YOUR ticket and have the crashers removed? Since they didn't pay for it, they'd probably be tossed out of the venue.

But if you do that with a border you're racist and profiling! Again, I have had the pleasure of having traveled all over the world. And when you do, they tell you to keep your passport on you at ALL TIMES! Even in Europe. If you are stopped for any reason, even if you're a citizen, you have to show proof that you belong there. If you're a foreigner and you do not have proper documentation, you're going to jail. And you might be there for a LONG time.

[catnipdipper]

I am not sure who would ask you 'if you want fries with that?" or who would process turkeys, do landscaping and lots of other jobs that white bubbas bitch that are taken but won't do themselves. WTF?I personally think and am afraid of illegal Swedes and think we should stop all blondes and check.It is a racist deal and no doubt about it, can't mask it under law it stands on it's won.

[Sens55]

Catnipper,

So you're saying that those jobs can't be filled by LEGAL immigrants? Get real. I'm not racist. I support the law, and my best friends' name is "Gomez". And guess what, HE supports it too! And he sits on the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce committees.

Just because people disagree with you doesn't make them racists. And trying to enforce laws isn't either. And there reason to think that legal immigrants with worker's visas couldn't do the same jobs. And, in the process, get rights that they are now being denied.

[catnipdipper]

Hey I am all for it. Lets get those on the right supporting this bill and claiming the Fed Gov has failed to unite and pass a bill to offer a way to legality. 12,000,000 can't be moved so lets make a path to paying taxes and a path to future citizenship and welcome their work ethic, their focus on family, religion, and make them contributories to our country.Let's not hide behind Kobach's B.S. He is not a mainstream dude for sure and I don't care for his bias in writing this kind of repressive crap and claiming to be holy.It is what it is.

[Sens55]

Legality for those in place, without rules to prevent future influx won't solve anything. They've already done that once, it didn't work. It's like pumping water off of a sinking ship. If you don't plug the whole you'll be hard-pressed to get the water out faster than it's coming in. Enforcing existing statutes, or creating ones like this, help stop the leak. Only then would it make sense to talk about legality for those in place.

[catnipdipper]

Posts ago I agreed and said plug the holes, then do something reasonable by offering a path to being an American Citizen, paying taxes and joining our community or at least qualifying for a tax paying work visa.Our drug habits fuel the problem and the guns they have are from the cash that they receive from this illegal problem.On the topic but why can't we outbid the Taliban for the Poppy crop and corner the market and set scientists finding new helpful drugs from this stuff. We would not be hated so much, would remove needed funding from the Terrorists, and make some cash from the results.Politicians are saying it is a political ploy to try to reform immigration in an elections year. Yet the naysayers are supporting the Az law to keep the tea baggerz from coming after them. Watch out John McCain you are toast buddy.

[john_galt]

Catnipper the radical approacheth, you start with insults, move on to misrepresentation, and finish with lies. Why did you stop by here anyway. I guess the word is troll.

[dirty dog]

"why can't we outbid the Taliban"

Because the Taliban can take away something from the poppy farmers we won't. Their life. Unless were willing to kill them which the Taliban is, we can't compete.

[catnipdipper]

Mr Galt sir; I think you are guilty of malicious accusery!I am not a radical. point of fact is that I am quite practical in life.Insults or truth, misrepresentations or practical facts, lies I don't see that one.Truth is always in the eyes and minds of the beholders and sometimes people prey on other's fears for their own gains and protections of their comforts.You cad sir, you cad.I come here often becauses I am a long time vetran of the hobby and normally don't say much unless stirred to call out B.S.Other than those instances I remain shrouded in mist, a wisp of smoke, a shad or grey in an all too black and white world.Ciao

[swarmyone]

I tried to warn everyone. This thread was destined to blow up. MsElena, catnipdipper, and those of their ilk will always find something to be offended by.

I used to try this tactic with my ex-wife...it worked most of the time. So...on behalf of all white men of european decent....I'M SORRY...we suck. Your right, I'm wrong, its all my fault.

Happy?

[catnipdipper]

At last someone who is willing to admit to his genetic faults.There is hope?I can tolerate stupid people and I can tolerate stubborn people too. It is those people that are both stubborn and stupid that I cannot abide without comment.Back to the mist and the shades of grey.

[MsElena]

Originally Posted by swarmyone

I tried to warn everyone. This thread was destined to blow up. MsElena, catnipdipper, and those of their ilk will always find something to be offended by.

I used to try this tactic with my ex-wife...it worked most of the time. So...on behalf of all white men of european decent....I'M SORRY...we suck. Your right, I'm wrong, its all my fault.

Happy?

Swarmy, first off do not group/stereotype me because you don't know me and you don't know what offends me. I haven't insulted you or grouped you, don't do it with me. I'm not some dumb young chick who will let a guy talk to me like that, board or no board. Show me the respect that I have given you and others or don't even respond.

And secondly, don't patronize me.

I don't know Catnipdipper, but I will say that I don't agree with his tone or the way he's responded to posts.

As I said yesterday, everyone knows my stance. I was simply voicing my opinion.

[Cheaper2buyit]

god this thread blows my High intill somebody can stop it it makes no sence to wine about it.