The truth about health care

[essence]

JDB, a link to a reference would be useful (or a link to any previous discussion on this topic).

[essence]

This is much more recent (2012).

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/46/2/38980580.pdf


US health expenditure is 2.5 times the OECD average.

US has fewer physicians per capita than most other OECD countries.

US has fewer curative care beds than most other OECD countries.

US has far more CT and MRI units than any other OECD country. It doesn't say how many actual scans took place.

In 1960 US life expectancy was above the average, now it is below the average.

In 2010, US obesity rate was 35.9%, up from 15% in 1978, the OECD average was 22.2%.

Obesity’s growing prevalence foreshadows increases in the occurrence of health problems (such as diabetes and cardiovascular diseases), and higher health care costs in the future.

Note by essence - in other words, it is going to get worse, and note that it takes time before obesity issues hit the health care fan. So don;t blame current life expectancy on current obesity.

[essence]

I have just realised that this information has only just been published, 28 June 2012, so I am happy to use it as the basis for any comparisons.

There is a link to a good database of information.

http://www.oecd.org/document/16/0,37..._37407,00.html

These are also essential reading for any useful debate:

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/12/58/49084319.pdf

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/12/16/49084355.pdf

[Whirlaway]

Where is your data on global ranking of:

Obesity rates
drug abuse rates
alcoholism rates
diabetes rates
smoking rates

All lifestlye choices that effect health. Prove how the US ranks in these indicators and you might make a useful on topic point.

[essence]

My link above and the spreadsheet may help.

Here it is again:

http://www.oecd.org/document/16/0,37..._37407,00.html

Tobacco consumption below average (of OECD)
Alcohol consumption below average
Obesity worst by far (and my guess is that this will affect diabetes ranking)

Other reports show that PRIMARY health care is where US is weak. Treating people early so they don't need more serious treatment.

[essence]

This looks useful.

http://www.oecd.org/document/31/0,37..._1_1_1,00.html


We will probably disagree on the role of government and private industry versus individuals to tackle obesity.

Many countries would regard obesity as a health care issue, and would provide necessary government resources to help tackle it. It is also good economics as it improves general health (although long term old age care may increase...). My wife has blood pressure problems, but continual discussion with her doctor and medication has gradually decreased her weight as part of an overall health program.

Other countries would regard obesity as a purely individual responsibility, with no need for the government to get involved in education, regulations or preventative care. I would regard that as short sighted.

Tax breaks for boot camps! Wakeup to set up nationwide campaign.

To be serious, there is a wide range in levels of fitness, of course a large number of people take it very seriously and have envious booties.

[Whirlaway]

@ Essence: I checked your info....it clearly states that the US leads the world in these lifestyle choices that adversely effect health.

Male Obesity = US leads by a a signficant number. http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-...758480-table16

Female Obesity = Again the US leads. http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-...758480-table15

Thanks for posting the data that proves my point.......ObamaCareTax has very little to do with the health of Americans and everything to do with a power grab by Socialists who want control over our lives and liberties.

Being an anti-American leftie, I don't expect you to understand it.


We don't need ObamaCareTax if the goal is to change lifestyle choices....ObamaCareTax was a power grab; a coup d'eta!

[CuteOldGuy]

A Brit, citing a French source, to prove America is a bad place and needs to become more like Europe. Forgive me if I'm skeptical.

[essence]

Whirlygirly, I see you are as bad as CoG at not reading my posts.

I already agreed obesity was the highest in the world.

I already agreed obesity affects health.

Those two statements are completely obvious, hardly worth restating.

I already said I am not anti American, how can I be anti american if I show a concern for the health of americans?

I am not a leftie, I am politically probably slightly right of centre.

But enough about me.

The issue is to identify the problem and decide what actions are to be undertaken to ameliorate the problem.

So, my approach is that under the overall umbrella of health care, the government should show leadership and take action to (a) help obesity (b) help primary health care.

This is of course much too simplistic, and the links I provide give a much more thorough analysis and set of recommendations. They generally recommend a multi faceted and multi agency approach.

I have stated again and again that education and primary health care are part of the solution on obesity.

Again, you box health care into the corner you want, whilst ignoring primary health care and education.

So, what are the republicans going to do to address these issues?

[essence]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

A Brit, citing a French source, to prove America is a bad place and needs to become more like Europe. Forgive me if I'm skeptical.

See below.

[Whirlaway]

I don't ignore anything; especially primary care and education. All of which could be accomplished without major government intervention - here or abroad !

When simple market solutions to education, preventive/primary care are readily available, you socialists support a system that bankrupts it's citizens and steals their liberities is telling. You are interested in controling our lives, our liberties. It is about power over us and not about health.

For the lefties in America it is about creating a large entitlement that will accomplish two things;

Destory our military, and empower an elite ever-expanding federal bueracracy.

[CuteOldGuy]

I can see I'm now living rent free in your head, Nonsence. Please fix the plumbing, there was too much shit piled up before I moved in.

I have an idea. Let people make their own choices, and they can reap the rewards thereof, or suffer the consequences.

But you don't like people being able to live their own lives as they see fit, do you, Nonsence? You want the government telling them what they can and cannot do. I'd rather live free.

[essence]

Let me give an example.

Sunday morning. A church serving predominantly the poorer black community. They gather together for lunch. Waffles with syrup, cakes with thick icing, sausage meat oozing fat, crisps, candy.

The ladies are mostly on the larger size.

They have no idea how, already pre disposed to diabetes, their diet is sending them to an early grave.

So a team is needed to raise their awareness, visit the churches, show them the statistics.

Who will form that team, who will fund it? The drug companies? The food manufacturers? The media? The government? Charities? Their pastor?

Whatever, something needs to be done.

Similar, kids who go to school and are given pizzas for breakfast or lunch, covered in lashings of fatty cheese.

I use that as an example because black people are more predisposed to diabetes, and lower income groups tend to have worse diets.

My suggestion? All waiters at IHOP and similar are told they have a duty to not serve obese people inappropriate menu items.

Also, parents of obese children are prosecuted for child abuse.

[CuteOldGuy]

The plumbing still isn't fixed.

[essence]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

you ... support a system that bankrupts it's citizens

So what is your reaction to the comparative health care costs presented in the reports, where US is way way ahead on cost per capita of any other nation?

There is a report which I linked to which analyses the reasons. One is the cost of medicine. Another is the high admin costs.

I'm sorry, you are the ones bankrupting yourselves.