Introspective discussion about ourselves from within the hobby

[Ansley]

Originally Posted by boredinbingo

Do you think we as a community on this forum can discuss this? How did we get here? Are we all just damaged goods by some sort of traumatic moment or abuse in our lives? Are all providers seeking to make up some deeply awful self-esteem deficiency? I realize this is a deeply personal question so I don't expect providers to share us their stories/conflicts, but I am curious about the true reasons we end up here - and if we are open to discussing this non judgmentally I think it would be amazing.

Originally Posted by boredinbingo

Laurentius actually seems to be one of approximately three people who got the intent of this thread.

I think you underestimate your audience. I would be willing to bet that all of us understand your intent. You ask a lot of very personal questions. Just because most of us choose not to divulge our "dirty little secrets" in a public forum doesn't mean we don't get it.

[discreetgent]

Good point Ansley.

So is this one:

Originally Posted by boredinbingo

Maybe this thread is in the wrong forum, but it doesn't mean it's worthy of outright derision or dismissal.

[terbul]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

No, that is not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the hobby is bigger than any one person's personal experience and includes things each would rather avoid. I hobby the way I do to avoid the things I find of concern.

It may not be what you are saying, but it is clearly what you said.

[Laurentius]

I sort of see this as an ad hominem in that rather than discussing the validity (or non) of the points made; the attempt is to impeach the source.

Which is fine.

But do YOU have an actual contribution to make? Or just criticism?

I'm interested in hearing YOUR concerns pertaining to your hobbying.

;-)

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by boredinbingo

I have yet to understand what is exactly so wrong with that. Maybe this thread is in the wrong forum, but it doesn't mean it's worthy of outright derision or dismissal.

Perhaps I've heard these dismal stereotypes all too often and have lost patience. My apologies for being dismissive of things I don't agree with.

I suppose it gets under my skin to have my chosen career path so often discusses in such a pitiful light. We are all here from free will, and those that run into conflict or unhappiness have the power to make changes rather then wallow. I just can't swollow the idea that there's something fundamentally wrong with demiland.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

I'm interested in hearing YOUR concerns pertaining to your hobbying.

Easy. I have none.

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Easy. I have none.

I can say the same.

[Laurentius]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

I can say the same.

Wait ... you DO screen. So you must have SOME concerns related to hobbying -- even if it is just for your safety.

But, I am confused. In a hobby with nothing of risk or concern ... why in the world would someone screen? Custom? Habit?

Are you getting my point?

Everybody with two neurons has SOME concerns; though our concerns may be different and shaped by disparate experiences, observations, and values.

But I'll abandon this line as it is abundantly clear that either I am not expressing myself in a fashion that is sufficiently clear, my expression is clear but you are being deliberately obtuse, or something.

[atlcomedy]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

But I'll abandon this line as it is abundantly clear that either I am not expressing myself in a fashion that is sufficiently clear, my expression is clear but you are being deliberately obtuse, or something.

WTF said something earlier about wanting to mentor. Don't give up....

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

Wait ... you DO screen. So you must have SOME concerns related to hobbying -- even if it is just for your safety.

I get what you're trying to say, but I think you're wrong. You pat yourself on the back too soon

My concern when I screen is primarily LE. In Canada I actually do substantially less detailed screening then I do in the US.

I have the same concerns I'd have picking a guy up at a bar or airport or restaurant, or meeting a civ for a first get together off a dating website. There are horrible people in all walks of life, this lifestyle does not contain an unusual concentration. In fact, mainstream online dating websites now incorporate a reference system, where other people who have had a date with that person can verify them.

Concern for my safety as a woman exits regardless of where I am, or how I meet people. The sad truth is that as a member of the fairer sex, I am aware that I am at a physical disadvantage (strength) which makes me vulnerable, and that there are people who would get off on hurting me. But those men are in grocery stores, they are in night clubs, they troll online dating sites. It could be a co-worker, a friend, or the guy you're already dating. In fact, the only man to violently assault me did so after I dated him for a year and a half. Being able to date someone for that long and never suspect they'd seek to hurt me has really annihilated a belief in screening as the ultimate safety net. Unless someone's been caught or charged, or harmed another woman willing to speak out, I don't think screening can guarantee my physical safety. Even if he has never caused harm to anyone before me, I could very well be a person's first victim - be it first date, boyfriend or patron.

I feel substantially more concerned for my safety walking down a deserted street at night then I do meeting a lightly screened first date as Lauren at his hotel. Yet, I still leave my house past sunset. Rather then live life with fear, suspicion and cynicism, I prefer to make thoughtful decisions and trust that most people are good.

I have no moral concerns about participating, nor do I believe those who are interested in booking a lady lack moral fiber or are inherently prone to violence.

[Laurentius]

So, hypothetically, as I happen to be one of those guys that when you type his name into Google you get 6000+ hits that will verify I am not LE, tell you where I live and everything else ... you'd be happy to screen me just given my name? (*grin* Only kidding!)

But let me get serious here for a moment. First some generic information; and then an understanding of the derivation of my concerns from arenas unrelated to stereotypes or hobby experiences. I believe you'll see where I am coming from.

I believe providers represent a cross-section of women as a whole. Anything that exists among civie women, also exists among providers -- both good and bad. Everything from demons to saints. And even saints who appear to be demons; and demons who appear to be saints.

I do not believe that providers are disproportionately victims of sexual abuse, drug abuse, rape or anything else. And I really don't see where you would derive that I think so. You "dismissed" a point that was never made. A stereotype that was not invoked. I certainly never said these things were disproportionately represented among providers.

However, because all of these issues are quite pervasive, they will exist in providers just as they do in civie women. NOT disproportionately. And it is extremely common for rape and sexual abuse to leave considerable psychological damage in those affected.

Now I'm going to tell you a story that I hope will make my concerns real to you -- this will be emotive rather than academic.

Because I deal everyday with a woman who is severely psychologically debilitated -- and not just sexually -- as a result of a gang rape; over time I have become extremely familiar with the types of damage that can be done; and the things that can exacerbate it. And because she worked as an escort after that event, and I have been intimately involved in all aspects of her care; I have been made aware by professionals that some events that occurred during escorting exacerbated the initial psychological damage.

What was interesting in her case is that, even after the initial trauma and then subsequent exacerbating events; by all appearances she was fully functional, completely normal, and had no issues. She is a beautiful woman with a genius IQ and had the world at her fingertips. Then, one day about a year after we were married, I came home to find her huddled up in a ball to petrified to move. Nobody can say with certainty what triggered it; though it is theorized that it was her concern about a cat that had been injured. But ever since then her life has been a living hell. She can't even take an unsupervised shower.

Obviously, I do everything I can and have retained the best psychological help available to assist her. But progress has been very limited.

I may cheat on her, but I love her to death. My world revolves around her, and I want her to regain her life. Not just for superficial stuff like actually being able to have sex at home; but so she can simply have hopes and dreams and live them.

I hope you can understand that, given that situation, its severity and my daily intimate familiarity; I have a concern about doing to other women what was done to her.

No, I have never and will never rape a woman. But because something like a quarter of women have suffered sexual abuse, and who knows how many have really been raped because of crappy reporting; it is reasonable to figure that there are some women out there providing who have experienced this.

Merely having experienced it is not problematic for me as long as the woman has resolved the issues pertaining to it. If she has, certainly nothing that would ever happen in a visit with me would harm her as I am a very caring person.

Nevertheless, psychological professionals have informed me that because her issues with the rape had not been resolved, her issues were seriously exacerbated by her (pretty ordinary) experiences while escorting. Because of this, I DO have a concern that it is *possible* for me to see an escort, and do harm to her just by ordinary activities. Even she might be unaware of the harm being done at the time. Years down the road she could find her Mr. Right and some innocuous event could transpire and ... bam ... be like my wife is.

It is well known in psychology that we recall negatives far more strongly than positives. So because of the proximity and severity of matters; it is likely that my concern in this regard is blown well out of proportion for what it should be. Nevertheless, it is a concern that I have.

By the way, I was never informed of the prior rape or the prior escorting career until all hell broke loose. Oops. Not that it would have made any difference in my choice -- but how could she have known without trying?

So I want to distinguish here that I have no concern about providers being disproportionately bad people or anything of the sort. Nor do I have any moral qualms about outsourcing my wife's sexual role after she has been unable to fulfill it for several years.

My ONLY concerns, really, are about the validity of consent and trying to avoid doing to some other woman what was done to my wife by exacerbating existing damage. In general, my hobby style avoids these pitfalls; and includes me doing everything possible to be the best possible client.

This isn't about media stereotypes or any of that jazz. It's about me treating others the way I'd want to be treated if the roles were reversed.

[Guest053011]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

My ONLY concerns, really, are about the validity of consent and trying to avoid doing to some other woman what was done to my wife by exacerbating existing damage. In general, my hobby style avoids these pitfalls; and includes me doing everything possible to be the best possible client.

This isn't about media stereotypes or any of that jazz. It's about me treating others the way I'd want to be treated if the roles were reversed.

Those in the therapeutic fields also say that we are not responsible for anyone else's happiness. We are only responsible for our own. I carry no such angst, not to suggest that you are wrong to.

Booking an appointment is not rape nor can it be compared to rape. She is in fact consenting. All you can do is be a good client and try and be a reasonably good judge of character. if she has some deep latent issues buried in her past, that is not your responsibility - that may sound cold, but I soundly believe it. It is up to her, to leave the business if participating is exacerbating some issue, or up to her to face the issue head on.

Hurt people need friends and support, but it is not the job of everyone who comes into contact with them to preform a psychological analysis of possible past or current trauma.

At the end of the day, it comes down to simple common sense. When you're meeting a lady, if she's relaxed, communicating well, appears to be having a good time, then you don't have to over think it. If you sense while you're together something isn't right, be a gentlemen and excuse yourself from the situation. Any such man should be able to have a long hobbying life with a clear conscience.

[Lucky40]

Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

At the end of the day, it comes down to simple common sense. When you're meeting a lady, if she's relaxed, communicating well, appears to be having a good time, then you don't have to over think it. If you sense while you're together something isn't right, be a gentlemen and excuse yourself from the situation. Any such man should be able to have a long hobbying life with a clear conscience.

Lauren, Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Laurentius, Argue there until your heart's content. This board and others are created for advertisement and to have some fun… pure and simple.

Cheer-up with this fine lady, her name is Sylvia and I have her contact information if you ever visit Netherlands.

[Laurentius]

is one seriously hot looking woman.

How could one be cynical looking at THAT?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

This isn't about media stereotypes or any of that jazz. It's about me treating others the way I'd want to be treated if the roles were reversed.

Try treating people how they want to be treated instead of how you want to be treated.

Works wonders!