Say Goodbye to the Recovery

[Doove]

Originally Posted by blue3122

Reagan inherited a "real" unemployment (what is reported is almost always about 2/3 of actual) of almost 20% from Carter. It wasn't until halfway through his first term that "stagflation" was broken. 8% was unbelievably good given what he inherited. Barry the Intern inherited something slightly less than 8%.

Originally Posted by blue3122

It's a pointless exercise for me to try to convince someone on the left that Obama's economic and regulatory (can anyone spell czar?) policies are keeping businesses from investing.

And it's especially pointless when you prove yourself to be little more than a tool by comparing Reagan's inherited "real" unemployment with Obama's inherited actual unemployment and basing your entire point on the percentage difference.

[Whirlaway]

Obama's gas price misery will be about $5.00/ gallon by election.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by blue3122

The numbers are getting worse and will likely get worse all year. The crop of Republican candidates isn't exactly the second coming of Reagan but when the REAL unemployment rates hit 12% (not the reported rates), gas hits $4.00 (due largely to printing money) and we have stagflation (anyone remember Jimmy C. from Plains?), then Barry the Intern will be the most popular teleprompter reader on the southside of Chicago.

I don't quite know how to break this to you.

The CBO recently reported that the REAL unemployment rate is already 15% or so.

[Missy Mariposa]

You guys realise we have some of the cheapest gas in the "First world" right? I've lived in Canada and England - you have no idea what "bent over at the pump" means until you pay over SEVEN DOLLARS for ONE GALLON of gas.

We start wars for oil just to stay below that is my guess.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by drluv1

Barry the intern, aren't you cute. Of course you being from texas, 47th in education, I had to check you numbers. The unemployment rate in jan of 81 when reagan took office was7.5% ,rising to over 10% in sept "82(1.5 yrs into reagan's1st term) and staying above 10% till july of '83. In jan "09 the rate was 7.8 %, hit a high of 10% for ONE month in occt. "09 and has slowly ccome down since.
The best comparison i could find was the unemployed and under employed rate, not sure if discouraged worker are included, which hit a high of 17.1% in dec of'82, almost 2yrs into his term and a high of 17.5% in oct of '09, 8 month into his presidency. So by your definition and by the numbers shown, Obama must be somewhere around " unbelievably good".

The debt didn't double Under "Obama, geitner/pelosi/reid". the deficit from bush's last budget year which ended in sept '09 was 1.4 trillion. So Obama's debt levels are about the same as bush's considering the effects of the recession. I'm not a big fan of these comparisons, but I've heard it said considering the size of the economy reagan's deficits are about the same as those of today. I think you tried to say something llke that when started talking about gdp and whatnot but forgot to factor in that we are in a major recession and even cutting $300 or 400 billion would be a major blow to the economy. Bush squandered the surpluses handed to him by clinton and spent trillion fighting ill-advised and ill planned wars coupled with a financial sector gone wild and we're serious trouble. Ecconomists predicted it would be at least 3 to 5 yrs before things got better and probably not till the end of the decade till employment levels got back to the 4 to 5 % range. It seems we've started on that path.
Regulation a "serious drag" on the economy ? The unregulated financial sector was a mega Bomb on the economy. I worked in Business too long to trust those bastards, of course with smiles on their faces , just like the mob. So long as one business in an industry isn't favored over another by a regulation, I generally don't have a problem with them. Even all the really questionable regulations added up don't have any more than small effect on the economy.

Texas ranks low in education due to the fact that we are being over run with illegal aliens. It turns out that third world illegals that don't speak English don't do well in school.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by BigLouie

Every poll has Obama beating any of those Republican clowns easily.

Polls mean nothing at this point. The average American responding to polls literally doesn't know who the candidates are.

Eight months before the 1980 presidential election Gallup polled Carter at 58% and Reagan at 33%. Gallup missed by 35%. The final outcome was Reagan 51%, Carter 41%, Anderson 7%.

I think Obama will be defeated by whoever the Republican nominee is. His record is a disaster. The billion dollar campaign fund, main stream media propaganda and voter fraud won't be enough to overcome his pathetic record.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

I don't quite know how to break this to you.

The CBO recently reported that the REAL unemployment rate is already 15% or so.

I don't quite know how to break this to you.

Your 15% number is entirely irrelevant, as it should be. Without any historical context, using it to get around the statistic with a very thorough historical context that you don't like is about the same as me trying to convince my grandmother that Tim Tebow is a great quarterback because he threw for over 100 yds per game.

Your "real" number is about nothing but spin.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Missy Mariposa

You guys realise we have some of the cheapest gas in the "First world" right? I've lived in Canada and England - you have no idea what "bent over at the pump" means until you pay over SEVEN DOLLARS for ONE GALLON of gas.

We start wars for oil just to stay below that is my guess.

actually that's not quite true.

there are some african nations who gas prices are below U.S. gas prices.

Don't remember which country it was, might've been Kenya. of course, the govt. subsidized the gas prices. I think it lead to riots when the president of that country was ending the gasoline subsidy so he could have money to spend on much urgent needs like better roads & other services that country was lacking.

[Missy Mariposa]

That's why I said "First World" and in quotes. Generally people take this to mean the US, Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ, etc. Maybe I should have said English speaking countries instead

Still, I pay 3.60 (for 93 octane) and that's far from bent over. When I lived in BC 4.10-4.50/gallon for 87 was not uncommon.

Gas prices are a racket, period, and have very little do with the puppet of the united states. Unless we're all implying that Canada and England are also 'victims' of Obama :P The US has GREAT gas prices compared to (almost) everywhere else and I think it'd do us all a little good to quit whinging and accept that we have it pretty damn great in this department.

[Mokoa]

Originally Posted by Missy Mariposa

You guys realise we have some of the cheapest gas in the "First world" right? I've lived in Canada and England - you have no idea what "bent over at the pump" means until you pay over SEVEN DOLLARS for ONE GALLON of gas.

We start wars for oil just to stay below that is my guess.

The Canadian gallon is an Imperial gallon, right? Five quarts instead of four?

[essence]

Saudi Arabia and I think Nigeria have cheap prices.

I agree. Gas prices should be higher in the US. Then maybe you would start to be more careful about using gas - you are such shit drivers, accelerating away from lights and braking hard at the next one, it's a joke, and the bad drivers are the first to complain about prices, and they are the first to drive inefficient cars.

My car does 55 mpg if i drive carefully, and that is not a particularly efficient car.

My last trip to Houston, a tank of gas lasted me a week, driving every day to work, but my gf seems to need a fresh tank every day.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

I think Obama will be defeated by whoever the Republican nominee is. .

How much you willing to bet?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Missy Mariposa

That's why I said "First World" and in quotes. Generally people take this to mean the US, Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ, etc. Maybe I should have said English speaking countries instead

Still, I pay 3.60 (for 93 octane) and that's far from bent over. When I lived in BC 4.10-4.50/gallon for 87 was not uncommon.

Gas prices are a racket, period, and have very little do with the puppet of the united states. Unless we're all implying that Canada and England are also 'victims' of Obama :P The US has GREAT gas prices compared to (almost) everywhere else and I think it'd do us all a little good to quit whinging and accept that we have it pretty damn great in this department.

We are a spoiled lot....especially my conseratives brothers here in this country. They cry at the mere thought of change!

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by Doove

I don't quite know how to break this to you.

Your 15% number is entirely irrelevant, as it should be. Without any historical context, using it to get around the statistic with a very thorough historical context that you don't like is about the same as me trying to convince my grandmother that Tim Tebow is a great quarterback because he threw for over 100 yds per game.

Your "real" number is about nothing but spin.

Uhh, Doovie, it isn't my number, it is the Congressional Budget Office's number. Argue with them.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Sidewinder

Uhh, Doovie, it isn't my number, it is the Congressional Budget Office's number. Argue with them.

why not sidestep the entire lot and quote the BLS ?


because their % doesnt agree with everyone else, or because keeping up with unemployment is their job, unlike Gallup and the CBO?

I need a plumber so I call an electrician logic.