The concept of Love. Loving VS being IN Love.

[Whispers]

I think one of the most hurtful things to have to hear in a long term relationship that is obviously coming to an end is "I Love you. I'm just not IN love with you anymore."

Is there a difference to you?

Is it a taboo word for you in relation to members of the opposite sex you meet within the community?

Personally I prefer the word "lust".

But over the years I have formed a relationship here and there that exceeded friendship and developed into a sincere caring.

When someone has been down and depressed I've found myself saying on occasion "You know I love you right?"

Not often. Very rarely actually.

I held a lady in my arms the other night as she cried and went on and on about a dozen different things going wrong in her life. I held her, listened to her, hugged her.... but in this case the caring did not reach that particular level. We are friends. I care about what is going on in her life. But I don't know her that well.

A few friends have asked about the girl that lives with me? I care a lot for her. I'm very protective of her. Do we use the "L" word? Yeah. It flies back and forth rather freely. But I never lose site of the fact that she is 21 and I am 54 and we are simply sharing a few moments in each others life for a variety of reasons. So although I CAN say I LOVE her or I love you too in response to her saying it I can clearly define that I am not IN LOVE with her. Nor her with me.

There can be incredible sexual chemistry between two people that transcends people even really "liking" each other. at times.

I hooked up last night with a gal that I've known for 4 years but haven't really had much to do with in over a year. She came home with me, spent the night and got up and went on her way. this morning. We had a lot of fun and it was a lot more than a transaction but we won't see each other again for another 6 months to a year. Lots of Sexual Chemistry. But no interest beyond that it seems.

I try not to misuse the word. It can cause a lot of confusion as well as create misunderstandings. I think over the years I hear it more than I say it.

Ladies... What comes to mind when you hear a guy say "You know I love you right?" Do you immediately assume that romantic forever yours kind of love?

How often is it misunderstood or misused?

Guys have you used the word and seen yourself taken advantage of as a result? I know I've heard "If you loved me you would do it for me" a few dozen times over the years.

Have you ever had an embarrassing situation result from a misuse or misunderstanding of the word use?

[budman33]

it's a Powerful word for sure. I use it sparingly and only when i really mean it, and sometimes even if I really mean it I still won't say it because it's a tango for two and not one. it's a delicate line to cross that can't be uncrossed. And yes you give up some power, control, your heart when you say it. Some people take of advantage of that...c'est la vie

[JDNorthface]

A great topic with great questions. When you involve yourself with anyone in such intimate situations, hobby or otherwise, the word does sometimes seem to bubble to the edge of the lips. I suspect many hobbyists have experienced what you have.

It's a natural progression probably. Hobby long enough, you'll find an ATF or at least "favorites." With favorites comes regular visits, with regular visits familiarity. With familiarity and intimacy, the feeling of love seems just under the surface.

It's happened to everyone, I'm sure. But with experience, it becomes easier to remind yourself what the business is about and keep those feelings in check.

Great post.

All the best.

[Mr Blonde]

true love for me is like aliens, ghosts, and religion. I will believe it when i see it.

[austinkboy]

"I love you. I'm just not IN love with you anymore." Wife #1, married 12+ years during of college said that to me as the opening salvo to getting a divorce. I thought about it, and couldn't argue with her.

The two go great hand-in-hand, and the ultimate idea is that both exist, there is a difference between loving someone and being in love with someone. The saying used in the way you describe it (in a break up) is a bit overdone and trite. It is condescending and a bit insulting perhaps depending on the circumstances. To love someone is to deeply care for someone, probably involves responsibility and commitment, and wanting what is good and right for the other person. To be "IN" love to me is the romantic infatuation part of it.

So at the risk of sounding like a schmuck, i am gonna venture a few statements. I love my wife, and I loved my ex-wife at one time. The IN love with wife is diminishing, which explains hobbying.

As far as hobby "girlfriends," I don't love anyone in the sense of a partner. I do like more than a few of them very much. Perhaps it could grow to be love under completely different set of circumstances (age differences for one). I do like just a few a lot more than just "like," but not to the point of "love" since I don't really know them, and they don't really know me.

I have been "IN" love with exactly one hobby girlfriend. It didn't turn out to be a healthy thing... and she had told me as much. I stopped seeing her to make sure I didn't end up loving her, and tried my best to fall OUT of love.

How did that work? Kinda like when I quit smoking cold turkey 10 years ago... Mostly worked, but I still think about smoking every once in a while.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by austinkboy

.......there is a difference between loving someone and being in love with someone. .......To love someone is to deeply care for someone, probably involves responsibility and commitment, and wanting what is good and right for the other person. To be "IN" love to me is the romantic infatuation part of it.

This is very close to my feelings on the subject..... I'm not sure if the word "deeply" needs to be there.....

Caring for someone and having some sort of involvement in their life, helping them make decisions and getting them or helping keep them on track to accomplish their goals.....wanting what is good and right for them.....being there to comfort them when they are sad.. sharing in their happy moments..... being willing to catch them if they fall... or take responsibility for them when they can't for themselves.....

To me those are all qualities of loving someone.

Up until very recently I still "loved" my estranged wife. I haven't been in love with her in years. we grew apart. But when she proved herself an incredible hypocrite I found all feelings replaced with something far worse......

So far... You are the only one that I've discussed this with who has similar beliefs....

I agree that being IN LOVE involves much deeper feelings and can often be very close to obsession. I've seen friends mistake obsession for love forsaking all reality for some dream they can never have.

I actually started thinking a lot about this as I recently crossed a line myself.

I tend to consider myself one of the most balanced people in regards to the hobby. I've had a lot of great relationships with ladies over the years and managed to remain friends with almost every lady I ever slept with. My soon to be Ex will become the first that is not true of.

But I slip at times myself. I made a decision recently regarding the young lady living with me that put what I WANTED before what she needed. I caught myself and reversed the decision within a couple of days leading to much anguish and resentment on her part for a while. But in the end it just made the strange relationship we share a bit stronger.

I love her. but I am not IN LOVE with her. There is no romance shared between us. No long candlelit dinners.

I agree that being IN LOVE tends to bring out the deep romantic feelings.

I think many of the guys here look for that feeling which leads them to flowers, gifts, etc.... It usually involves the nonstop texting from the moment they wake up until they close their eyes at night. Even if when they close their eyes they are laying next to another woman. They put more thought and planning into evenings with the subject of their love/obsession than into evenings with their wives.

Which is so impractical when they are 50 and the subject of their "love" is only 25. or even greater age spreads.

How do they set aside the fact that the girl WITH them would be with someone else if there was not money involved in the relationship?

How can you "love" someone or be IN LOVE with someone when you regularly hand them cash for the time they spend with you?

I've certainly heard all the arguments over the years. Yes in a marriage or relationship there is often some exchange of support.

But there is far more involved at times.

Then again.

I listen to friend analyze his marital arrangement based on how much better life is for his wife WITH him if she turns a blind eye to his occasional forays VS what it would be like WITHOUT him. Although there is this practical understanding in place between him and her, I also know that he loves and cares for her and is a great family man!

I don't think he is capable of being IN LOVE with another

Anyway.

More views would be of interest.

[harkontume]

I love cookies.
I love my children.
Same word different meaning.

So we angst over the word when dealing in relationships.
I am just grateful to have a reason to angst.

[Mature Companion]

There's a difference with being in love & being in lust with someone.
You know, w/o hesitation when you love someone. It's a feeling that you can't deny, a feeling like no other.

Loves not meant to be a back & forth emotion. You can love someone so completely, w/o them loving you in return. If they love you in return. Wonderful. If they don't, still cherish the feeling your heart felt. Because true love only happens once or twice in a lifetime.


I've only loved one man in my life and to this day, that love still burns within me. And always will. Even though our paths have long since come to an end. I'm glad I expressed my love to him when & how I did. As there's not a day that goes by that I don't thank the Gods above for bringing him into my life when & how he did.



So if you find that your feelings for one of your young gals, Whispers, is love for her. Then tell her. If it's just lust & care for her. Again, tell her.
People like it when you express your feelings to them. Regardless if they reciprocate or not. Holding back will only bring you regret.

Originally Posted by Whispers

I think one of the most hurtful things to have to hear in a long term relationship that is obviously coming to an end is "I Love you. I'm just not IN love with you anymore."

Is there a difference to you?

Is it a taboo word for you in relation to members of the opposite sex you meet within the community?

Personally I prefer the word "lust".

But over the years I have formed a relationship here and there that exceeded friendship and developed into a sincere caring.

When someone has been down and depressed I've found myself saying on occasion "You know I love you right?"

Not often. Very rarely actually.

I held a lady in my arms the other night as she cried and went on and on about a dozen different things going wrong in her life. I held her, listened to her, hugged her.... but in this case the caring did not reach that particular level. We are friends. I care about what is going on in her life. But I don't know her that well.

A few friends have asked about the girl that lives with me? I care a lot for her. I'm very protective of her. Do we use the "L" word? Yeah. It flies back and forth rather freely. But I never lose site of the fact that she is 21 and I am 54 and we are simply sharing a few moments in each others life for a variety of reasons. So although I CAN say I LOVE her or I love you too in response to her saying it I can clearly define that I am not IN LOVE with her. Nor her with me.

There can be incredible sexual chemistry between two people that transcends people even really "liking" each other. at times.

I hooked up last night with a gal that I've known for 4 years but haven't really had much to do with in over a year. She came home with me, spent the night and got up and went on her way. this morning. We had a lot of fun and it was a lot more than a transaction but we won't see each other again for another 6 months to a year. Lots of Sexual Chemistry. But no interest beyond that it seems.

I try not to misuse the word. It can cause a lot of confusion as well as create misunderstandings. I think over the years I hear it more than I say it.

Ladies... What comes to mind when you hear a guy say "You know I love you right?" Do you immediately assume that romantic forever yours kind of love?

How often is it misunderstood or misused?

Guys have you used the word and seen yourself taken advantage of as a result? I know I've heard "If you loved me you would do it for me" a few dozen times over the years.

Have you ever had an embarrassing situation result from a misuse or misunderstanding of the word use?

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

So if you find that your feelings for one of your young gals, Whispers, is love for her. Then tell her. If it's just lust & care for her. Again, tell her.

There have been 7 ladies over 38 years that I have told that I loved them. Only three of those was I truly IN LOVE WITH in my personal ideas as to the use of the word. Two of them I married. The other 5 were girls I got to know over long periods of time and came to care for and shared with quite a bit. One of them I wanted to marry.

The young lady that lives with me says it as well as hears it regularly. We have also had rather healthy conversations as to what it means and how it differs from being IN LOVE. She is as practical as I am about our relationship. She is getting herself back together after dealing with some serious health issues and a tremendous financial setback and we both know she will move on soon. I think we will stay close for a number of years to come. I won't be sad when she moves on. There is a tremendous satisfaction in having helped her get her life back on track.

Originally Posted by Wicked Milf

People like it when you express your feelings to them. Regardless if they reciprocate or not. Holding back will only bring you regret.

Very well said.

Many years ago, in between my first and 2nd wife was one of the ladies I told many time that I loved her. I wanted to ask her to marry me and came very close to doing so. Because of a huge misunderstanding over semantics one day we had a rather insane disagreement about marriage and I never asked thinking we were on totally separate pages for the subject. Months later, after we had broke up I ran into her one night and it came up in conversation when I mentioned having sold the engagement ring I had intended on giving her. When she asked what ring I realized she was really clueless what my intentions were back when we had the fight. We talked about it and when she realized what had happened she went off to the bathroom with tears, came back later and kissed me on the cheek and whispered in my ear...... "You should have asked. I would have said Yes" and left with her friends....

That was a moment that brought me much regret and heartache.

The most recent use of the words "I love you" have not been to girls that I am IN LOVE WITH. Nor do I think my feelings for them could develop in that manner as a result of the extreme age differences as well as social dynamics. They are young and have full life's ahead of them with children and many experiences that I would not want to tarnish.

There is one of the five in San Antonio that I think of quite often. I've known her for a lot of years and been a part of her life in many ways. She is currently in a relationship and I hope she lives life forever in love and happy. But should she ever be available, she is one I think I could spend time and actually be in love with. At least with her the difference in our ages is only 23 years!

[1kewlkat]

I believe love is an elusory perception between two individuals but the feeling is amazing, somehow you become bigger, you’re no longer fragmented…

The darker side is it leaves one open to being manipulated. I believe it's not worth the pain you feel. This is not really a topic I want to delve deeply into…

As far as being in love or loving a provider, I've been infatuated. I'm 50, I have no delusions about some 20-30 year-old being in love with me, possibly liking me as a friend, maybe. No emotional commitment, It's one of the reasons I stepped into the hobby, this fantasy world.

I did mentioned to a provider I have known for some time that "I kind of liked her" and the response was "I never have liked you". Not the response I was expecting, after I awoke from the impact of that statement. Later as we were parting ways she expected to see me again. Perhaps, I should thank her or not, emotions are strange thing. Will I see her again, I don't know.



Some of the best advice I ever got from a hobbyist here was this, "Never see a provider more than twice" it's a protocol that I plan to follow.

[DANGEROUS?...]

Whispers, what the fuck is up with you this Thanksgiving weekend? This is unusual fodder for you, strip club man....

[Whispers]

I'm being nice till Santa comes...... There are a pair of White Thigh High Stockings hanging by my fireplace I am hoping get filled!

[JohnBrown7]

"I Love you. I'm just not IN love with you anymore."

I used to believe I could say that and it would be a true statement. Not anymore.

I've learned that I can't love (which requires understanding and action) without being in love (which is the state that causes me to seek understanding and take action).

For me, loving someone means that I'm willing and able to help them find joy and overcome sorrow. In order to do that, I have to gain a lot of knowledge/understanding and take a lot of action. Being in love is the inspiration for gaining that understanding and taking the required action.

[AmberLeeDarling]

Feelings are so fickle, "in love", caring love, lustful love, however it comes, it's a great feeling to love, and to be loved. I don't think people should worry so much about expressing strong feelings of caring, friendship, or lust. As long as you are honest with where those feelings are coming from, and aware that feelings change, why not express good feelings towards another?
Love is the greatest thing we've got, be it physical, friendly, or all consuming, feelings of good-will towards another are generally a good thing. Those feelings likely won't stay the same forever, might as well enjoy them while you can.

On a side note, I don't think a young woman is any less capable of loving an older man than one closer to their age, I think it's more an issue of what's more appropriate for their life. The feelings can be just as strong, they may just be happier with someone who is in a similar place in their lives with the same goals to spend their life with.

[JohnBrown7]

Whispers, you asked some important questions that I think have been overlooked as we on this thread tried to tackle love vs. being in love.

Hoping it will inspire others (including you) to respond, I provided answers some of those questions.

Originally Posted by Whispers

Ladies... What comes to mind when you hear a guy say "You know I love you right?" Do you immediately assume that romantic forever yours kind of love?

How often is it misunderstood or misused?

Now, most days I'm not a lady, but when I am and I hear this, I focus on tone and body language. If the question is asked in a serious manner, I assume I'm being manipulated and or the questioner is compensating. IMO, if a person has to seriously ask that question, their actions haven't been supporting those words.

Originally Posted by Whispers

Guys have you used the word and seen yourself taken advantage of as a result?

Nope. What I do out of love, I do out of love. It's up to the receiver to determine how they will use it. I believe if a person is going to take advantage of me, they're going to take advantage of me whether I tell them I love them or not. All they need is my trust to pull that off.

Originally Posted by Whispers

I know I've heard "If you loved me you would do it for me" a few dozen times over the years.

Have you ever had an embarrassing situation result from a misuse or misunderstanding of the word use?

I've used that line and had it used on me. Each time I used it, I was attempting to manipulate. Each time it was used on me, the person was being manipulative. Embarrassing situation? No. Feeling shameful after I successfully manipulated someone? Yes.

Originally Posted by Whispers

Caring for someone and having some sort of involvement in their life, helping them make decisions and getting them or helping keep them on track to accomplish their goals.....wanting what is good and right for them.....being there to comfort them when they are sad.. sharing in their happy moments..... being willing to catch them if they fall... or take responsibility for them when they can't for themselves.....

To me those are all qualities of loving someone.

Same here, as long as it's being done without some desire of personal gain/benefit. Pimps, child molesters, and investment managers will do all of the above, but...

Originally Posted by Whispers

I love her. but I am not IN LOVE with her. There is no romance shared between us. No long candlelit dinners.

I agree that being IN LOVE tends to bring out the deep romantic feelings.

You didn't ask questions here, so I will.

What is romance? What are "deep romantic feelings"? I bet each of us has our own interpretation.

For me, focusing on my partner and having her focus on me is romantic. I find long candlelit dinners, romantic movies, romantic baths for two to be decadent (and I mean decadent in the worst way possible). If the let-me-show-how-much-I-love-you act is getting as much/more focus than the loved one, it's not romantic. Now, that's not to say I don't enjoy a bath for two, but believe me, the bath will not be my focus.

Originally Posted by Whispers

I think many of the guys here look for that feeling which leads them to flowers, gifts, etc.... It usually involves the nonstop texting from the moment they wake up until they close their eyes at night. Even if when they close their eyes they are laying next to another woman. They put more thought and planning into evenings with the subject of their love/obsession than into evenings with their wives.

Which is so impractical when they are 50 and the subject of their "love" is only 25. or even greater age spreads.

"And, what's wrong with that? I'd like to know..."

(I'm disregarding the hyperbole (e.g., nonstop texting) and the wives portion of the above)
Seriously Whispers, this seems to be a theme with you. Why is that? Why do you care what other guys feel/do for the women they spend time with? You also often mention the age gap, but even you love (or at least loved) someone 20+ years your junior. I really would like to hear why these issues(?) are important to you.

Originally Posted by Whispers

How do they set aside the fact that the girl WITH them would be with someone else if there was not money involved in the relationship?

One of my friends left the business, moved away, and started a new life. I helped her as much as I could along the way. She has a new love. She's happy with him. I'm happy for her. My love for her hasn't changed. For me, love isn't about possession (or sex), which I'm assuming you're alluding to. Let me know if my assumption is wrong.

Originally Posted by Whispers

How can you "love" someone or be IN LOVE with someone when you regularly hand them cash for the time they spend with you?

See your own comments about the qualities of loving someone. Loving or being in love with someone is not about an exchange. However, if I have to let go of some cash in order to have the time to do those things, so be it. Hopefully, when they walk away, they will know they are richer in a way money can't buy.

Originally Posted by Whispers

More views would be of interest.

Yup. Again, Whispers I hope you will provide answers to your questions as well.