Goodbye, Joe

[dilbert firestorm]

I'm undecided head coach Joe Paterno deserved to be fired.

the problem here is that so many people up and down the chain knew what went on.

the university board knew.
the coaches knew
the university boosters/supporters knew.
and god only knows who else knew.

they all should resign but they won't. JP was their sacrificial lamb just to save their hides.

I think he should be allowed to complete his last season and resign there after. I thought that was fair given the circumstances.

there are no saints in this thing.

[budman33]

At that time and before and since Joe had more power than his so called supervisors and just about anyone else in the system. He could have done something more, should have done something more, and he chose NOT to.

IMO He should have been fired... a long time ago.

I actually think he's part of his firing. Best way to salvage his legacy by taking one for the team. Oh poor Joe.

[pyramider]

If they were cleaning house Paterno had to go. There will be many more terminations before this cluster fuck is done.

Paterno now has an attorney out of Washington DC.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

the university board knew.

Yes they did. And they have the unmitigated gall to fire JoePa?
Bullshit.

[CuteOldGuy]

Everyone involved in the cover up should be tried. Including Paterno.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Everyone involved in the cover up should be tried. Including Paterno.

I have a slightly different take on this.

Everyone involved in the cover up should be held accountable for their own actions, or lack thereof. Including Paterno!

I say, let the wheels of justice turn and let the chips fall where they may!

Regarding whether JoePa should have been fired: If he is guilty of a cover up or something worse, an emphatic yes.

Otherwise, no!

[BigLouie]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

I'm undecided head coach Joe Paterno deserved to be fired.

Here is something very telling. In 1998 the first incident was reported. At that time the "perp" was thought to be the person who was going to replace Joe when he retired. He was a highly thought of defensive coach. The next year he is fired and never gets another job offer from another university. Let me ask you, who has the power to do this? Only one, Joe. Joe knew back in 1998 what was going on and fired the guy. At his retirement Joe basically said nothing about the guy, this was for a person who had been with him 30 years. That should tell you that Joe knew what was going on.

[budman33]

Yep, but Joe also knew what kind of a man he was firing( err allowed to retire) that still had his charity foundation to do the sick shit he is accused of. That's what I have a hard time absolving PapaJoe about, he removed the problem from his staff and then washed his hands of it. Not very heroic.

[Guest050715-1]

Asked………..

Originally Posted by WTF

No...but that is a one sided event.

JoePa had not one single Defense lawyer in that grand jury room.

I like to wait for all the facts to come out before making up my mind. That usually happens in a court of law, not on a hooker board. If the grand jury was always correct there would be no need for trials in this country...We still are in the good ole USofA right? Or did I miss something?

………and answered.

Originally Posted by WTF

I will say that I did not listen to the CA trial...much more so on the OJ trial. In my book he was guilty as fuc, what little I know about the CA trial , she appeared guilty to me as well.

COG, I do not feel like reading the article. JoePa has been fired, he is 84 years old, same age as my Dad. My Dad has no business coaching a powder puff football team, much less a big time college football team , nor handling matters such as child abuse.

Your points conflict themselves. The American justice system is a bit tainted at the very least. Justice is for sale, and everybody knows it. OJ and CA are two high profile cases the demonstrate beautifully that the truth doesn’t always come out. In Paterno’s statement he admitted he had not done enough to prevent the rape of other children. If he were truly innocent, he would have stayed and fought the accusations not negotiate a favorable ending. Might it be noted also that NOBODY has come out and denied the allegations as they are being crucified in the media, fired and branded as accessories to rape.

Originally Posted by London Rayne

Amen! I just love people who have nothing better to do but comment on other people's so called mistakes without any facts lol. Makes me glad I am not on trial for anything.

Mistake? He made a mistake? Who the rapist or the accessory after the fact made a mistake? One bastard rapes a child and a few other bastards covered it up? That’s not a mistake in most peoples’ minds. You’re glad you’re not on trial Well I’m glad you aren’t on a jury.

No facts? There are facts abound. Everyone and I mean everyone knows that, and overlooking them doesn’t make them go away.

Sandusky along with the after the fact accomplices are all equally guilty of being villains and responsible for the subsequent rapes. If Paterno would have done the right thing, the next child wouldn’t have been raped. Again, in my opinion, period and end of report. Paterno and the AD enabled this despicable bastard to continue with his rapes. The act of doing nothing is a decision and action in and of itself. People need to realize that.

The way I see it that anyone that does not condemn, after hearing the facts that have come out, Paterno and the university’s actions of NOT reporting this to the POLICE – and Paterno’s boss doesn’t count as the police – is supporting and condoning child rape. We need to all stop and consider how we would feel if it was our child. Honestly, this turning a blind eye to events is what makes the sick world of victimizing the weak possible. It disgusts me, both the rape and the victimization of the rape victims by capable adults. As Gandhi said, “You can judge a society, by how they treat their weakest members.” Wise words and they apply here.

You don’t rape children. It’s just not done! What is so hard to understand about that?

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

In Texas, certain individuals, including teachers or school personnel, commit a crime if they fail to report suspected sexual abuse of a child to the authorities. (Interestingly, scanning the statute, it seems that it has to be one of those "at the child's school." So if the kid goes to another school and a neighbor who is a teacher finds out, there may be no legal duty. Interesting potential defense.)

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...htm/FA.261.htm

No idea if there is a similar law in Pennsylvania, but I suspect that there would be.

It is also against the law in Texas not to report a felony that occurred in your presence, or not to report a felony that you believe has been committed that you have reason to believe hasn't been reported.

http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/38.171.00.html

Again, no knowledge of other State's laws, but this is a common provision in most State's laws.

Here is a synopsis of the PA law: http://law.findlaw.com/state-laws/ch.../pennsylvania/. It appears that everyone in the Penn State chain of command had a duty to report it to the Department of Public Welfare since they are classified as school teacher/nurse/administrator. The penalty for failing to do so is just a misdemeanor. I think the public firing and loss of icon-icity is much worse than the misdemeanor.

And it seems to me we are mixing lots of apples and oranges. There is conduct (and failure to act) that is criminal.

However, there is conduct (and failure to act) that can bring discipline in one's employment. That is entirely different that criminal conduct. One can be disciplined in his/her job for almost anything that the employer deems unacceptable, up to and including termination. Who knows what the thinking was with the Board of Trustees, but it was a unanimous action taken against a legend. That's entirely different than criminal conduct. They may have realized that this would open PSU to all kinds of liability.

PSU might convince people that it is trying to make amends if it closed its football program for 5 years and put all that budget to a victims' fund.

[CuteOldGuy]

Thanks, Chuck. Well said.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Your points conflict themselves.

No they do not. OJ and CA had a TRIAL. After which I had a more informed OPINION. You do know the difference between a trial and a grand jury right?

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The American justice system is a bit tainted at the very least. Justice is for sale, and everybody knows it. OJ and CA are two high profile cases the demonstrate beautifully that the truth doesn’t always come out.

Wow, that is ground breaking news, having money for a great defense team that goes up aganist a DA that has unlimited funds does level the playing field a bit.

Do you not understand that the truth is in the eye of the beholder. In OJ's case, decades of police injustice towards blacks led to doubt in the jury's mind.

That is not so hard to understand unless you have trouble putting yourself in others shoes. I could get a jury in Iraq to convict G W Bush of war crimes. See, I said Iraq and even then a Baath jury maybe needed. You have to be able to see things from others POV. You are acting as if your truth is the only truth, a common enough mistake.

Not sure why you are making such juvenile points.

Picking a sympathetic jury is key




[/quote]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

In Paterno’s statement he admitted he had not done enough to prevent the rape of other children.

Number one, he did not say that. He said he wished he had done more. We all could say that and it would be a true statement. It is a statement taken in the context of hindsight. Not much different than if your child had murdered someone. You will hve wished you had done more...

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

If he were truly innocent, he would have stayed and fought the accusations not negotiate a favorable ending.

WTF are you talking about? "favorable ending" , my ass. It is ignorant statements like this that make me wonder about the sanity of this country.

He was fired from his job....the board had been wanting to get rid of him for a long time.

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Might it be noted also that NOBODY has come out and denied the allegations as they are being crucified in the media, fired and branded as accessories to rape.

Because of hormonal outburst like these, and rioting on campus, I think he (Paterno) has done the correct thing and not inflamed the situation. Were I his lawyer, I would not have him catering to folks with the mindset you have demonstrated here.

You are kinda late to this party and not sure what you are trying to accomplish. It appears you are playing to some crowd after having seen which way the eccie wind was blowing. Probably a good marketing move on your part.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Thanks, Chuck. Well said.

Everything was well stated except this...

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

PSU might convince people that it is trying to make amends if it closed its football program for 5 years and put all that budget to a victims' fund.

That is total ignorance. Football generates a PROFIT. That means it pays for the BUDGET and has money left over for other things. Without football, there would be no budget.

Now I have a suggestion.....why should the PennSt victims be paid more than any other sexual abuse victim? Why don't we all (especially those that are hollering we should have done more) put money in a national fund to pay all victims of sexual abuse the exact same amount. I have never understood the so called high profile cases demands for higher justice.

If you really want to do something...donate your time and money to local abuse shelters and let us quit with this reactionary, titty baby, band-aide, make you feel good having done nothing yourself solution to problems.

[budman33]

IMO one of the Universal truths is once again proven.

The coverup can cause as much or more damage than the crime.

Now for the victims we know it's not true, but this was Sandusky's crime and not PSU's or Paterno's.

But, IMO Paterno and the University covered this up because Sandusky was a 30 year friend of Paterno's and PSU didnt want the publicity.

Now the chickens have come home to roost and Paterno and PSU Administration deserve exactly what they have gotten so far and whatever comes down the road.

Not to make light but this reminded me of a quote from my favorite movie, A Few Good Men.

"Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong.
Dawson: Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willie."

[WTF]

Originally Posted by budman33

But, IMO Paterno and the University covered this up because Sandusky was a 30 year friend of Paterno's and PSU didnt want the publicity.

If Paterno had not reported it to his higher up, I could see the argument of a cover-up on his part.

Now was there a proper follow up?

Sure does not seem so.

Originally Posted by budman33

"Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong.
Dawson: Yeah, we did. We were supposed to fight for the people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willie."

That is a really good movie with conflicting moral thoughts. In that moveie the question was how do you fight evil with evil or good.

Here you have a person (JoePa) that probably does not want to believe in the evil of one close to him (Sandusky). Does not want to sit in judgement, wanted to put that judgement in the hands of others, others that would be more objective. That is a perfectly sane response that most of us would do to what is considered our own family member.

Things need context...some of you are only seeing in black or white and are looking at this with the benifit of hindsight. It is like the folks that have turned on Bush about the invasion of Iraq. With hindsight they are always right. Their foresight is what we should be looking at and Paterno's was not so good in this regard but that does not make either him or Bush evil or criminal at the time or even now.