If You Overvalued Your Assets You Can't Be Mad When No One Will Give You Money Against Them

[winn dixie]

Originally Posted by VitaMan

This may interest some of the MAGAs:

"Trump says he never swore to 'support' the Constitution"

"Lawyers for former President Donald Trump filed a brief stating he never made an oath, as president, to “support” the Constitution."



Yet here he is, producing a hail mary, trying to use the 8th Amendment. Wonder when he came up with this idea ?


Same old wiggly, slimy Trump. Ask the investors in his NJ casinos. They got wiped out. Trump ?

"I made a lot of money in Atlantic City." is his famous line. Maybe he should give that back to the investors too.

Total and udder pos

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

why does it even matter? do you really think Trump is the only NY real estate mogul who does this? they all do.



who did Trump cheat again? Deutsche Bank? are they suing Trump? are they getting any of this outrageous amount that judge decided on while not knowing jack shit about real estate valuations?


you guys need to make up yer minds here. is Trump really a criminal genius who managed to dupe dozens of sophisticated financial institutions out of millions?


nonsense.


oh and why is the State of New York the only one getting any of this "stolen profits"?


is James gonna give Deutsche Bank any of their lost profits back? oh that's right .. they didn't lose any money. none of them did.


only people who hate Trump don't see this for the political prosecution that it is.

Doesn't matter if he is the only one. Point is, and proven one at that, is that he committed fraud.

Specifically fraud against the people of New York. And that is just one group of plenty (we will leave it there for now as to who.)

Don't try the repub Jedi mind tricks by misdirecting attention off the fact that he committed fraud against the people of New York. That chaff don't fly. Political or not.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

show me one other NY real estate mogul ever charged with this. EVER.



i'll wait

Not the point. Doesn't matter for those before or after him. donny was the one who was charged and found guilty. Hopefully it will be the first of many so as to put on notice those who cheat will be held accountable.

Originally Posted by winn dixie

Doesn't matter.
What's your point?
Trumpf lied. Proven
He has to pay!
Fire sale beginning soon. Indeed

EXACTLY!

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Prove no other has been charged. We will wait.

Only a MAGA could come up with this as a defense for Trump fraud.

Perhaps if Trump had not committed fraud or such a MASSIVE scale...over decades...and not shown one iota acknowledging his fraud...the judgement would have been different. Instead he chose to instruct his lawyers to do their best to attempt to show there was no fraud.

Unfortunately for Trump the evidence showed otherwise.

Judgement sizes are made all the time with consideration for mitigating factors or circumstances...but it is doubtful you would understand why.

This applies to criminal cases also.

Just like the rightie right: they will spew off their spun out alternative facts. And when questioned on them, they will demand the questioner to supply something while they will ignore all request that will show they are wrong.

They seek to control the dialogue. Not present facts and recognize them.

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Nobody is saying Trump did not commit the “crime”

What people are saying is the punishment is so asinine.
This is akin to someone getting Life in prison jaywalking.

This is where the 8th and 14 th Amendments com into play.

Regardless whether our liberal Democrat friends want to accept it, the “Bill of Rights” protects citizens against all Government abuse, whether it’s a cop beating a confession out of a suspect, to a over zealous DA and Judge destroying an individual financially for a victimless crime.

Possibly true. But this crime is not victimless. There are millions of victims. The people of New York. Hopefully it is the start of something that will open peoples eyes and make them accountable.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

show me any prior charges of any real estate mogul not named Trump under this law


i'll wait







the only crime Trump "committed" is political

Doesn't matter. He ain't the first to do it. Ain't the last. Like the analogy of a speeding ticket. Doesn't matter if you were not the only one doing it, you got caught and are accountable for your actions.

Originally Posted by VitaMan

Yes that is what we have been waiting on....for you to Prove there haven't been any.

Regarding your other statement, the 92 page summary judgement provides the evidence of Trump fraud. It is a civil case so you can't refer to it as a crime.

But you haven't read it anyway. You are more of a cartoon and video guy - not a scholar or someone that relies on facts.

Their standard circle the wagons approach. They would get so much farther proving their point if they would do as they demand others to do and not ignore any queries to themselves.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

still waiting for you to prove Trump defrauded anyone specifically the banks that lent the money and got paid back in full

You look sweet leaning on that standard denial in replying to questions put to you while demanding others answers you.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

that law is a blanket piece of typical liberal overreach bullshit never once since 1956 used in a case such as this. prove me wrong


i'll wait

You mean that law that was adopted during a republican AG in New York. That have libby written all over the label

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

You do realize that Trump has already been prosecuted under this law twice already.

This is not Trump’s first run-in with New York’s anti-fraud law. His nonprofit Trump Foundation agreed to shut down in 2018 over allegations he misused funds for political and business interests. And his Trump University was sued under the law in 2013 for allegedly misleading thousands of students with false promises of success but it had closed before it could be shuttered by the courts. Trump eventually settled this and related cases for $25 million.

That to me shows an understanding of the law and intent to commit further fraud in the future. It’s no wonder that he was prosecuted. He knew what he was doing and did it anyway.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

You do realize that this law is so intentionally vague you could be guilty of it if you lived in NY? what would you think of that?



thank you valued poster

God Forbid that a bunch of repubs pushed such a law for their own AG back in the day!

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

Specifically fraud against the people of New York. And that is just one group of plenty (we will leave it there for now as to who.)

Don't try the repub Jedi mind tricks by misdirecting attention off the fact that he committed fraud against the people of New York. That chaff don't fly. Political or not.

Possibly true. But this crime is not victimless. There are millions of victims. The people of New York. Hopefully it is the start of something that will open peoples eyes and make them accountable.

With respect to Letitia James' claims, exactly how were the people of New York defrauded?

Originally Posted by Precious_b

You mean that law that was adopted during a republican AG in New York. That have libby written all over the label

God Forbid that a bunch of repubs pushed such a law for their own AG back in the day!

What difference does it make who was attorney general when the law was passed, whether he was a Republican or Democrat? The law sucks:

Originally Posted by Tiny

The statute is Section 63, part 12 of the New York Executive Law. You can find it here.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/EXC/63

The purpose of the statute is to grab revenue for the state of New York and to score political points for the attorney general. It was used to sue Exxon for allegedly failing to disclose risks associated with global warming to shareholders. New York extracted billions for the state's coffers from banks and insurance companies with Section 63(12). Elliott Spitzer used it to turbocharge his political career. If you want to claim fraud with scanty evidence then 63(12)'s your friend. You only have to prove the defendant engaged in "persistent deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise, or unconscionable contractual provisions."

Google it and you'll see there are attorneys and others who dislike Trump but believe Letitia James is really stretching, going for $370 million and trying to get Trump's businesses kicked out of New York. The law allows for restitution and damages but is $370 million reasonable considering no one suffered damage? It's also questionable whether the court has the power to kick Trump out of New York, even though Engoron initially set out to do that after he issued his partial summary judgement.

One of the reasons the United States of America is so successful is because we have rule of law. People like you invest and create businesses believing government won't steal from them. This New York statute and the way the AG uses it, for political purposes and to generate revenue, is more indicative of countries where authoritarianism, crony capitalism, or populism predominates.

And yeah, Republicans do this shit too. For example DeSantis and Disney. I think the Democrats are worse though.

[1blackman1]

Who is harmed when you drive drunk from a bar and make it home safely? Last I checked people can and do actually get jailed for driving drunk when caught. Not many victims of that particular crime. I've seen the police do DUI checkstops and none of those people have harmed anyone but they get arrested nonetheless. Just because you don't like a law doesn't mean it's invalid. Trump has teams of lawyers to advise him and chose to commit fraud regardless.

As I stated months ago, the whole “where's the victim” argument is bullshit. Whether the banks were harmed or not is irrelevant. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. He intended to commit fraud and did so. He was caught. Now he's fined. The fine itself might be reduced by the appeals court but in the meantime, he’ll start getting liens placed on all his properties so he can't borrow against them or sell them. Then they will be subject to seizure and sale.

Maybe the Russians Saudis and Chinese will purchase his stuff at the overinglated valuations.

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Who is harmed when you drive drunk from a bar and make it home safely? Last I checked people can and do actually get jailed for driving drunk when caught. Not many victims of that particular crime. I've seen the police do DUI checkstops and none of those people have harmed anyone but they get arrested nonetheless. Just because you don't like a law doesn't mean it's invalid. Trump has teams of lawyers to advise him and chose to commit fraud regardless.

As I stated months ago, the whole “where's the victim” argument is bullshit. Whether the banks were harmed or not is irrelevant. Ignorance of the law is not a defense. He intended to commit fraud and did so. He was caught. Now he's fined. The fine itself might be reduced by the appeals court but in the meantime, he’ll start getting liens placed on all his properties so he can't borrow against them or sell them. Then they will be subject to seizure and sale.

Maybe the Russians Saudis and Chinese will purchase his stuff at the overinglated valuations.

As I stated in another post. Nobody is saying Trumpdid not break this Statute.

The argument is the punishment violates Trump’s Constitutional Rights under the 8th and 14th Amendments.

We will see.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

As I stated in another post. Nobody is saying Trumpdid not break this Statute.

The argument is the punishment violates Trump’s Constitutional Rights under the 8th and 14th Amendments.

We will see.

Experts estimate that his net worth is about 2.5 billion, he’s reportedly going to make 3.5 billion from Truth Social. 500 million is a lot of money but compared to his actual wealth it’s a small fraction. I don’t think that is cruel or unusual punishment. Many people get fined amounts much more than their actual wealth. That’s cruel and unusual.

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

As I stated in another post. Nobody is saying Trumpdid not break this Statute.

The argument is the punishment violates Trump’s Constitutional Rights under the 8th and 14th Amendments.

We will see.

On that you're wrong. I've explained it multiple times.

[Lucas McCain]

In the industry I work in, I know those hedge fund billionaires could easily pony up the money for Trump. He turns the other way, and he doesn't care what they do. He is perfect for them. What MAGA folks don't understand is Trump does not give a fuck about you. He just wants your votes. He works for the wealthy and the rich and not for the MAGA broke asses who cry nonstop about inflation. Those billionaires are his type of guys.

How do you help Trump out though if you are them? You can't have that shit stain on you. To get out of this by Monday, Trump has to go to foreigners who are hardly considered to be friends of the American family.

[1blackman1]

Trump wrote: 'THROUGH HARD WORK, TALENT, AND LUCK, I CURRENTLY HAVE ALMOST FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS IN CASH, A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF WHICH I INTENDED TO USE IN MY CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENT.

'THE OFTEN OVERTURNED POLITICAL HACK JUDGE ON THE RIGGED AND CORRUPT A.G. CASE, WHERE I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG, KNEW THIS, WANTED TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME, AND THAT’S WHERE AND WHY HE CAME UP WITH THE SHOCKING NUMBER WHICH, COUPLED WITH HIS CRAZY INTEREST DEMAND, IS APPROXIMATELY $454,000,000.

Since he claims to have the cash, why's he whining.

[Yssup Rider]

Number one, he doesn’t want to look like a broke dick loser

Or

Number two, he’s lying.

Select all that apply.

[Jackie S]

51 financial experts agree that Trump is only worth about $500.

[1blackman1]

Including the bond insurers he's begged to provide him a bond on his properties.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Trump wrote: 'THROUGH HARD WORK, TALENT, AND LUCK, I CURRENTLY HAVE ALMOST FIVE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS IN CASH, A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF WHICH I INTENDED TO USE IN MY CAMPAIGN FOR PRESIDENT.

'THE OFTEN OVERTURNED POLITICAL HACK JUDGE ON THE RIGGED AND CORRUPT A.G. CASE, WHERE I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG, KNEW THIS, WANTED TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME, AND THAT’S WHERE AND WHY HE CAME UP WITH THE SHOCKING NUMBER WHICH, COUPLED WITH HIS CRAZY INTEREST DEMAND, IS APPROXIMATELY $454,000,000.

Since he claims to have the cash, why's he whining.

For very different reasons, I'm not a fan of Trump, or of Tim Dunn, the Texas oilman who supports social conservatism. And Trump undoubtedly wasn't going to actually spend $500 million of his own money on his campaign. And maybe it's just coincidence, but it sure looks like Democrats are trying to use the courts and the federal bureaucracy to deprive Republicans of campaign funds.

In Trump's case it's through this bogus $455 million judgement. In Dunn's case, it's by Lina Kahn and the FTC holding up the sale of his company to Occidental Petroleum. That would put billions into Dunn's hands, some portion of which he'd likely spend supporting political candidates. The idea that stopping a merger between Dunn's company, Crownrock, and Oxy would cause the price of gasoline to go up is insane. Crownrock has about a 0.1% market share in oil.

[eyecu2]

Trumps campaign money isn't coming out of his own pocket. His legal fees are at a small amount, but the majority of his campaign.oney will come from GOP & PACs and the legal fees will ultimately end up out of the special interest conservatives PACS. No way he's pulling out his own money to pay for shit. He's a cheap ass Ho.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Tiny

For very different reasons, I'm not a fan of Trump, or of Tim Dunn, the Texas oilman who supports social conservatism. And Trump undoubtedly wasn't going to actually spend $500 million of his own money on his campaign. And maybe it's just coincidence, but it sure looks like Democrats are trying to use the courts and the federal bureaucracy to deprive Republicans of campaign funds.

In Trump's case it's through this bogus $455 million judgement. In Dunn's case, it's by Lina Kahn and the FTC holding up the sale of his company to Occidental Petroleum. That would put billions into Dunn's hands, some portion of which he'd likely spend supporting political candidates. The idea that stopping a merger between Dunn's company, Crownrock, and Oxy would cause the price of gasoline to go up is insane. Crownrock has about a 0.1% market share in oil.

Tiny I’ve got to push back a little on your language here.

First of all the use of the word “bogus”. You can call it egregious or unwarranted but it’s not bogus. Bogus means fake, the judgement against Trump for fraud is not fake. This is the third time that Trump or one of his companies has been convicted under NY Executive law 63(12).

Secondly, It may look like Democrats are trying to deprive Trump of campaign funds but the reality is the reverse. Trump is depriving his campaign of funds. Trump has the money to pay his own bills but he instead is spending large and small donor contributions to pay his freight. The question to ask is would the civil lawsuit have proceeded whether or not he was campaigning for president. I think the answer is yes.

As far as Dunn and the FTC goes I know very little about it so i’ll not comment. But implying that the two issues are connected by intent is to imply that a criminal conspiracy is afoot between different branches of the executive, the New York AG’s office and the democratic party. That’s venturing into conspiracy theory territory.