Is Matt Gaetz Dumb, or Mentally Retarded?

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

well in matters of opinion, i would see your point. however, as to a matter of fact concerning whether Greenberg has turned state's evidence, pretty sure cnn, ny times, and fox news would all agree. if fox disagrees, i would expect that it would be the top headline of the day, from "inside sources."

new york times has pretty high jounalistic standards imo. cnn was actually quoting the nyt.

Bless your heart!

[CryptKicker]

Everyone, including pxmcc, back on topic please. It is not up to the OP or to individual posters to lecture the board on what is and what is not on topic. If there was an issue this would have already been addressed.

[DEAR_JOHN]

Frankly I like Gaetz, not saying he's guilty or innocent, however if guilty it would be a great disappointment to me.


But let it work it's way through the system and then let's see what happens.

[VitaMan]

I always thought he was weird during his tv time on congressional hearings. He seemed pompous.

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Bless your heart!

umm ok how bout 5gs-that's my current bankroll-that Greenberg will cop a plea and testify against Gaetz? i always enjoy doubling up on a good bet. as preggo said, put your money where your mouth is..

@vita: he's a showboat. actual bills sponsored and passed to help his constituents? 0. nada.

[preggolover89]

Originally Posted by DEAR_JOHN

Frankly I like Gaetz, not saying he's guilty or innocent, however if guilty it would be a great disappointment to me.


But let it work it's way through the system and then let's see what happens.

I fucking hate him but completely agree - let it work it's way through the system. I'd say the same thing if he was liberal - I don't understand how Trumpsters can be all "blue lives matter" until it comes to the FBI and national intelligence - who the fuck do they think those people are? Just slightly smarter cops.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by preggolover89

I fucking hate him but completely agree - let it work it's way through the system. I'd say the same thing if he was liberal - I don't understand how Trumpsters can be all "blue lives matter" until it comes to the FBI and national intelligence - who the fuck do they think those people are? Just slightly smarter cops.

You're painting with a broad brush there. I'm a Trump supporter and I think my record on here shows that I've been very critical of the policing from the local level on up including the botched Harding street raid. There is no way in hell that something like that should happen. It's arrogance from the judge who signed off on a no knock warrant, the police chief who implemented that policy, his staff and the whole department.
What's going on with the FBI and other federal agencies is far worse however. It's arrogance also but it's a political arrogance that makes them seemingly immune to responsibility for their actions. They appear to be protecting a ruling class(the politicians) not the people and a clear double standard exists.

That kind of protection behind layers upon layers of bureaucracy in favor of the rulers was a big reason the French Revolution took place.

[gnadfly]

Fort Pelosi must fall!

[VitaMan]

Looks like the topic is drifting again to the FBI.......but as long as it is on the FBI, it's not new.

Most of the J Edgar Hoover allegations were proven to be correct.

[boardman]

Political threads always drift because other similar situations are used as examples.
To keep it on topic from my previous post I think almost all politicians enjoy a certain amount of protection from within. There may be some outliers within both parties who will speak out but most have too skeletons in their own closets and they don't want to open Pandora's Box.

From a Democrat perspective it may be beneficial to make Gaetz squirm a little and hold this stuff over his head rather than to have him kicked out and have a squeaky clean "untouchable" take his place. This "investigation could go on as long as Gaetz is in office.

These agencies such as the FBI are all overseen by Congressional committees. As we've seen in the Russian Collusion, FISA debacle in which no one has really been held accountable these committees aren't really overseeing a whole hell of a lot except covering their own asses. There is most likely some back scratching going on. So, for example, Christopher Wray doesn't dive in too deep on investigating a congressman and in turn he isn't brought before committees to face questions that neither side of the aisle nor neither side of the gov't,(executive , legislative) wants real answers to being made public.

[preggolover89]

Originally Posted by boardman

You're painting with a broad brush there. I'm a Trump supporter and I think my record on here shows that I've been very critical of the policing from the local level on up including the botched Harding street raid. There is no way in hell that something like that should happen. It's arrogance from the judge who signed off on a no knock warrant, the police chief who implemented that policy, his staff and the whole department.
What's going on with the FBI and other federal agencies is far worse however. It's arrogance also but it's a political arrogance that makes them seemingly immune to responsibility for their actions. They appear to be protecting a ruling class(the politicians) not the people and a clear double standard exists.

That kind of protection behind layers upon layers of bureaucracy in favor of the rulers was a big reason the French Revolution took place.

Sorry - not accusing you specifically. I barely ever post on Eccie, just came across this one when I was linked a profile from OH2. So I don't know your history - it's just a general commentary on most Trump supporters who want us trust police but not the FBI who are just slighter smarter police with a different jurisdiction.

You have to admit that multiple Trumpsters in this thread have said along the lines of "it's a hit piece" when it's clearly not. Greenberg was investigated because he's a fucking moron that threatened someone with a pedophilia accusation who went to the FBI and the Gaetz investigation is simply good police work - following any other potential / linked crimes.

[pxmcc]

He is going to try frame this whole issue as he never paid for sex because all of his activity was between him-sugar daddy-and his girls-sugar babies. in that kind of relationship, there is no explicit sex for money trade. he will call all of his payments "gifts" to his sugar babies, which is real but possibly implausible. why did he have to disguise the purpose of the "gifts" in the memos sent to Greenberg if there was no quid pro quo? he should have said "700 to Brittany, as she is my sweetest sugar baby this month," instead of "tuition" or "groceries." and real sugar baby relationships actually require regular payments versus a one-time payment after a sugary overnight.. i wonder if his bank statements and other e-records reflect that? i bet not.

he has 2 more problems. the first is that Greenberg can call bs on this whole construct, by pointing at actual "frolic sessions," after which he paid the gal and Gaetz reimbursed him for the payment. that makes Gaetz' "no sex for money" story go from implausible to "factually incorrect.."

Gaetz caught a break that the ALLEGED underage gal doesn't want to testify, but she becomes unnecessary if Greenberg can attest to his own personal knowledge of what went down. Furthermore, if federal prosecutors decide that they must have her testimony, they can always subpoena her. Further, they can leverage a possible prostitution charge and jail time for the gal until she comes around.

Will Gaetz' story work? a weak maybe, but i say with all the circumstantial evidence-venmo and cashapp in very odd transactions-plus the Greenberg testimony, i say prolly no.

and then there's all the
ALLEGED state id fuckery-Gaetz has already admitted coming to Greenberg for help with his id. but they did this unusual transaction at like 10 pm. a legit transaction should be done during workday hours, not in an empty office at 10pm. i smell a rat, and i bet a jury would too.

also there's an ALLEGED kickback issue with a Florida hand surgeon, on top of campaign finance problem over ALLEGEDLY converting political donations into a personal slush fund, maybe his "sugar baby fund"..

all in all, Gaetz finds himself in a bit of a pickel. the trump approach worked only because he was president. needless to say, Gaetz isn't president..

thoughts?

@Boardman: the only reason Trump went to war with the FBI is that trump wants no oversight. he proved that time and again. his leadership style is very Don Corleone-ish. what was it he kept asking for from his subordinates again? i think it was devotion to the rule of law and always doing the right thing, come what may, if my memory serves me correctly..

[boardman]

Trump went to war with the FBI because they came after him. Have you forgotten already the Page/Strzok conversations? The unverified dossier that led to FISA surveillance on Carter Page which Chris Wray has admitted had not and could not be verified as legitimate? What about the railroading of Michael Flynn or the predawn raid, complete with video by an informed CNN, and arrest of Roger Stone for a process crime? All this to try to implement the "insurance policy" Strzok told Page was in the FBI's pocket. The only thing that led to anything of substance was Stone being convicted for making false statements about talking to some Russians in 2015 as well as piled on obstruction and witness tampering charges all related to the process crime.

[pxmcc]

pl

Originally Posted by boardman

Trump went to war with the FBI because they came after him. Have you forgotten already the Page/Strzok conversations? The unverified dossier that led to FISA surveillance on Carter Page which Chris Wray has admitted had not and could not be verified as legitimate? What about the railroading of Michael Flynn or the predawn raid, complete with video by an informed CNN, and arrest of Roger Stone for a process crime? All this to try to implement the "insurance policy" Strzok told Page was in the FBI's pocket. The only thing that led to anything of substance was Stone being convicted for making false statements about talking to some Russians in 2015 as well as piled on obstruction and witness tampering charges all related to the process crime.

Muellar got 34 felony convictions. a witch hunt doesn't produce 34 felony convictions.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.co...as/%3famp=true

versus 40 total indictments and/or people serving jail time from Watergate, from what i read online. (btw, that's a lower standard than felony convictions.)

if i had Muellar's job, there would have been 35: treason and conspiracy to commit treason by the President of the United States, by giving aid and comfort to our enemy, Russia. And obstruction of justice, bigly.

anyway, what are your thoughts on Gaetz, if the alleged facts are confirmed. is he toast, or does he have some kind of wiggle room?

[boardman]

Those other convictions really had nothing to do with the initial investigation by Mueller. Most of it was making false statements. After brow beating these guys for months on end they find an inconsistency in an answer from three month previous and next thing you know they're hanging a charge on someone. If these guys were really guilty of something they would have known better and kept their mouth shut. What they did to Michael Flynn is beyond anything I thought could ever happen.

Mueller spent millions to try and dig up something on Trump/Russian collusion and got a bunch of unrelated charges, some plea deals and convictions. Not impressed.



Of course Gaetz is toast if they can convict but investigators are gonna have to flip someone other than Greenberg. Maybe the now porn starlet turns but the credibility of either her or Greenberg is flimsy. What porn star wouldn't want a connection to a scandal like this. It would make her an overnight sensation right? But that isn't happening for some reason...at least not yet. I wonder why.