TDS

[1blackman1]

look back at #28, simple question was posed there. No answer. Maybe you missed it.

And yes, WE MADE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

[eccieuser9500]

Probably too full of himself to remember it address.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

look back at #28, simple question was posed there. No answer. Maybe you missed it.

And yes, WE MADE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

you made America establishment again. what's great about that?

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

look back at #28, simple question was posed there. No answer. Maybe you missed it.

And yes, WE MADE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

Like I said, ad nausaum.

I did miss it. I went back and looked and I probably saw Tiny's post quoting me and took off from there without going back to your post but I'll be happy to address it now even though I have already addressed it numerous times in talking about Hunter's laptop and the Bobulinski interview. Numerous times.

Here are your questions

So what exactly did Joe do with China, what’s the illegal act you’re so sure that he’s committed? Be specific so that we can be clear as to what crime he supposedly committed.

Taking the e-mails from the laptop and the Bobulinski interview and admittedly making assumptions just like you do with Trump, it has the appearance of influence peddling, selling your office for money.

Now if you want to make the case that the oldest, continuous news paper in the country, the New York Post, is, what did you call it, irreputable, you have the right to your opinion.

https://nypost.com/2020/10/22/after-...laining-to-do/

With confirmation on Hunter’s influence-peddling, Joe Biden has explaining to do

And this is why I always give a reference as to where I draw some of my conclusions from, rightly or wrongly.

If in fact and it has not yet been proven much like allegations against Trump that haven't been proven but look clear to some people, Joe Biden may have accepted pay-offs from deals that Hunter was making in Ukraine and China and a few more countries that I can't recall, Hunter was very busy. "10 million for the big guy", which Bobulinski confirms is Joe Biden, that might be a criminal act. I am not an attorney, I am speculating like everybody else including you, as to the criminal activities of Trump

What crime did Hunter commit, since evidently you’re so sure that he did something as well. He specific.

Hunter confirms himself, that he has been notified that he is under criminal investigation by the FBI and I hear there may be as many as four investigations, so do I really have to explain why I think Hunter may have committed criminal acts?

If in the future you ever think I have dodged a question, feel free to call me on it before you announce that I'm afraid to answer your question because I have never avoided a question on purpose in my life. I'm not afraid to air my opinions as anybody can clearly see.


Now, what is criminal enterprise Trump is involved in "right in front of us"? And I have already acknowledged that I believe he will be charged with something, just not sure what that something is but probably something to do with taxes.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

look back at #28, simple question was posed there. No answer. Maybe you missed it.

And yes, WE MADE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

This is TDS LOL

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

It’s pretty easy. Every long post you focus on “I just want democrats (name whomever else) to answer for this or that (you name it, some perceived behavior)” but nowhere in your posts do you - answer for the bad behavior of the right, answer any questions posed to you or acknowledge that republicans and the right do pretty much everything you accuse of the left.

You drone on for paragraphs outlining what you think, with any proof making allegation after allegation (ie Biden having a criminal enterprise) but quickly fall back to “there was no proof Trump has a criminal enterprise going right in front of us.”

When it’s pointed out that what you’re saying is full of eloquently stated bullshit you quickly move on to a new subject and start the obfuscation by doing faulty research and long quoting some article from some obscure or irreputable opinion piece that you quote as fact.

Garbage in garbage out.

Hedonist doesn't drink the Kool Aid. Yes, from time-to-time he sucks a little in, swishes it around in his mouth, but ultimately he always spits it out. Hedonist does not swallow. He's like those Pentecostals who play around with venomous snakes but manage not to get bit.

Since you brought it up, you've been towing the party line 100% of the time. Do you believe Democrats are 100% right? If not, how about some criticism of particular left-of-center policies you disagree with from time to time? Just do it. WTF and I do. Even Hedonist does. It's good for the soul, and useful for self enlightenment.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

He has the TDS

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Like I said, ad nausaum.

I did miss it. I went back and looked and I probably saw Tiny's post quoting me and took off from there without going back to your post but I'll be happy to address it now even though I have already addressed it numerous times in talking about Hunter's laptop and the Bobulinski interview. Numerous times.

Here are your questions

Taking the e-mails from the laptop and the Bobulinski interview and admittedly making assumptions just like you do with Trump, it has the appearance of influence peddling, selling your office for money.

Now if you want to make the case that the oldest, continuous news paper in the country, the New York Post, is, what did you call it, irreputable, you have the right to your opinion.

https://nypost.com/2020/10/22/after-...laining-to-do/

With confirmation on Hunter’s influence-peddling, Joe Biden has explaining to do

And this is why I always give a reference as to where I draw some of my conclusions from, rightly or wrongly.

If in fact and it has not yet been proven much like allegations against Trump that haven't been proven but look clear to some people, Joe Biden may have accepted pay-offs from deals that Hunter was making in Ukraine and China and a few more countries that I can't recall, Hunter was very busy. "10 million for the big guy", which Bobulinski confirms is Joe Biden, that might be a criminal act. I am not an attorney, I am speculating like everybody else including you, as to the criminal activities of Trump

Hunter confirms himself, that he has been notified that he is under criminal investigation by the FBI and I hear there may be as many as four investigations, so do I really have to explain why I think Hunter may have committed criminal acts?

If in the future you ever think I have dodged a question, feel free to call me on it before you announce that I'm afraid to answer your question because I have never avoided a question on purpose in my life. I'm not afraid to air my opinions as anybody can clearly see.


Now, what is criminal enterprise Trump is involved in "right in front of us"? And I have already acknowledged that I believe he will be charged with something, just not sure what that something is but probably something to do with taxes.

Originally Posted by Tiny

Hedonist doesn't drink the Kool Aid. Yes, from time-to-time he sucks a little in, swishes it around in his mouth, but ultimately he always spits it out. Hedonist does not swallow. He's like those Pentecostals who play around with venomous snakes but manage not to get bit.

Since you brought it up, you've been towing the party line 100% of the time. Do you believe Democrats are 100% right? If not, how about some criticism of particular left-of-center policies you disagree with from time to time? Just do it. WTF and I do. Even Hedonist does. It's good for the soul, and useful for self enlightenment.

I guess I don't just criticize. I condemn. Joe should appoint an AG who will throw the book at Dump.















And then shove it down his pie hole.

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Hedonist doesn't drink the Kool Aid. Yes, from time-to-time he sucks a little in, swishes it around in his mouth, but ultimately he always spits it out. Hedonist does not swallow. He's like those Pentecostals who play around with venomous snakes but manage not to get bit.

Since you brought it up, you've been towing the party line 100% of the time. Do you believe Democrats are 100% right? If not, how about some criticism of particular left-of-center policies you disagree with from time to time? Just do it. WTF and I do. Even Hedonist does. It's good for the soul, and useful for self enlightenment.

In a thread long ago I stated what policies I disagree with.

I would prefer a federal flat tax with a high standard deduction. Let’s say 20% with the standard deduction being 30k per wage earner. I’ve not done the math on it but I’m sure that keep folks outta poverty over taxes and eliminate the need did a tax industry. Similarly for companies though The numbers would be different.

I don’t believe abortion after week 14 or somewhere in there should be allowed except for health issues. Prior, it should be a woman’s choice. Incest would be the exception to those rules.

I’m a proponent of the death penalty. I just think we have a cumbersome process for administering it. Nonsensical for folks to be on death row for decades. We need an expedited appeals process so that they can be moved through to execution.

The govt shouldn’t be subsidizing any industry. Allow the market to prevail.

I don’t care how many guns people buy, they just need to register them. I don’t necessarily believe folks need or should have access to high rate of fire semi automatic rifles with high capacity magazines. We did fine with them being limited through the 80s and 90s. But since they are out there, tax and register them. Pass tighter more restrictive forfeiture laws and enhanced penalties for use of firearms in a crime.

Though I’m no proponent of forgiving student loans I see the economic benefit to doing so at this time but it should be a one time thing. The largest bill most college grads will face is the student loan. Economically it’d be better for them to come out prepared to buy a house or car rather than paying 400-500 monthly in student loans for 10-15 years. The slate needs to be cleaned because the amount of student debt is disproportionate to the benefit of the college degree but most students would never know that. College tuitions are way out of whack.

Russia and China are adversaries and competitors and should be treated as such. Neither has US interest at heart snd both should be dealt with at arms length. Neither can be trusted.

I’m likely a little too hawkish but that a function of having been in the army and thus my opinion on dealing with the likes of NK and some countries in the Middle East would require too lengthy a post.

Religious freedom is simply an excuse for businesses to discriminate, generally speaking. In the past when there were limited options the market couldn’t prevail against them so antidiscrimination laws were needed. Not so much anymore. I say let the market prevail. Baker doesn’t wanna make a Adam and Adam cake then gays can boycott and tell all their friends not to use that vendor snd they can find a vendor that them and their friends can use. Baker gets his way and gays can support a gay friendly business. Same with race creed and whatever else.

Cancel culture or whatever you wanna call it, not my thing. But unfortunately people have gotten to where they believe there should be no repercussions from their actions. In the good old days we fixed a lot of problems immediately. A guy called me a certain word, he’d take his asswhipping (which is what he was asking for clearly) and maybe next time he’d think twice about doing that because he’d know there were repercussions. Sadly those days are gone and people think they can do pretty much anything or say anything without any repercussions. I suppose the modern version of that is boycotting and outing people in a pretty massive way with the help of social media.

I have no idea of Biden did anything illegal. We have seen his taxes so there is that. Unless he’s sitting on millions in cash, which I would say is highly unlikely, mainly because unlike on TV washing that kind of money is extremely difficult and near impossible especially for a public figure. If Joe wanted to make millions in China he could have simply gone there and said to any company “hire me to lobby for you, I’m connected to all aspects of US govt and can help with regulations” and he could be paid whatever amount without issue. There’s no need for any criminal enterprise. Truthfully Hunter likely did just that and it wouldn’t have been illegal to do so. Now not reporting the income is illegal or what’s more likely is misreporting and deductions. That’s why I asked for specificity as to what LAW is believed to have been broken in this so called criminal enterprise. Just because something looks bad doesn’t mean it’s illegal. Even if it should be.

Trump is a prime example of that. In 2016 it’s clear that his campaign welcomed Russia interfering through suppression and disinformation campaigns and it looks like Roger Stone was aware of Russian activity coordinated through Wikileaks. Trump in trying to defend himself (from possible criminal charges maybe or just because he though it delegitimized his win) also hampered the investigation in Russia’s operation, who was aware and who might have had knowledge of what the Russians were attempting to achieve. Unfortunately, we might never know the extent of Russias activities in 2016. I have no clue what Trump knew or when. I find it difficult to believe he was unaware of the attention Russians were given his campaign or people in his campaign.

Trump’s current “legal” fight about the election is a money grab. He and his family and staff know he’s gone in 2 weeks. In fact they’ve known that for over a month. MelanIa had begun packing and finding a new school for Baron before the election was called. The cry of massive election fraud was always a sucker move. He and anyone in the know always knew that it didn’t exist. No one has ever proven massive fraud in the modern era. But it’s an easy sell and Trump supporters haven’t shown themselves to be able to think beyond what they read on Parler or hear from right wing media even when it makes zero sense.

Just like you (HF and Tiny) I don’t claim either side is free of fault. I’m sure I’m actually less a partisan than either of you though I have a particular disdain for the Trump party and prior to them Tea Party. Neither are true republicans. Mainly because they are the most hypocritical folks in congress and they have been terrible for the function of congress and government. They thrive to make government ineffectual and dysfunctional and believe compromise is a dirty word.

The progressives in the Democratic Party I feel similarly about. though there are far fewer of them than alleged by Fox and the folks on this site. AOC and the squad have no power and don’t affect leadership or any bills being passed. In fact it’s clear that’s the case because they’re complaining that they aren’t part of the leadership or the bullpen and aren’t being mentored for leadership. Their negotiating power is more an irritant than anything else. The moderates rule the Democratic Party and likely always will. I suspect in 2022 we’ll see more moderates return for those seats lost mainly because Trump won’t be on the ballot and republican turnout won’t overperform as they did in Nov. Also, Democratic messaging will be moderated after the progressives lost the party seats in 2020.

I’m always welcome to engage in sensible debate on real issues. But that’s it really what this forum is about. It’s silly, filled with stupidity, hyperpartison and unserious. With the likes of Dilly the Dummy, Wimp Dixie the racist, Neverthinker, Oebby the chief Idiot, LexusLiar, Barfycorny, Wacky and Levi the Loon, one has to make simple statements without too much nuance because they clearly have a lack of understanding and only believe what Trump or Kilmeade and Hannity tells them it’s ok to believe. One can’t debate against obstinance and there is no real debate when there’s no agreement on the facts.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

[S
in talking about Hunter's laptop and the Bobulinski interview. Numerous times.

Here are your questions

Taking the e-mails from the laptop and the Bobulinski interview and admittedly making assumptions just like you do with Trump, it has the appearance of influence peddling, selling your office for money.



ZE]

You're basically admitting that you even think it bullshit. You are just doing it because you think others do it to Trump. Pitiful.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

In a thread long ago I stated what policies I disagree with.



So did I, but that didn't stop you from accusing me of never doing so did it?


I would prefer a federal flat tax with a high standard deduction. Let’s say 20% with the standard deduction being 30k per wage earner. I’ve not done the math on it but I’m sure that keep folks outta poverty over taxes and eliminate the need did a tax industry. Similarly for companies though The numbers would be different.



And yet you support and vote for a party with literally nobody taking the stand you just took. If I'm wrong, please list the Democrats that support a flat tax. So, just like me, you vote for a party that doesn't support what you do 100%. of the time. I agree on a flat tax generally.



https://today.yougov.com/topics/poli...05/22/flat-tax


A flat tax is popular among Republicans, but Democrats and independents are more skeptical



I don’t believe abortion after week 14 or somewhere in there should be allowed except for health issues. Prior, it should be a woman’s choice. Incest would be the exception to those rules.



And I believe the cut off with exceptions should be about 20 weeks which I believe is what Roe limits. I believe rape and incest should exceptions so we are generally in agreement on this which makes me definitely not welcome in the Republican party. I also believe this to be a states right issue. If you don't believe in abortion, don't live in a state that allows it and vice versa. In this day and age, if a state were to pass a no abortion law under any circumstances, they would suffer economic disaster but that would be their choice. Pick up and move if you don't like the laws of your state.


I’m a proponent of the death penalty. I just think we have a cumbersome process for administering it. Nonsensical for folks to be on death row for decades. We need an expedited appeals process so that they can be moved through to execution.



100% agree but I do not believe the majority of the party you just voted for believes that. I would make even more reforms before you could put anybody to death. A death penalty should be beyond reproach with much more evidence than a single or even a couple of so called "eyewitnesses". Nothing highlighted this more recently than those initially testifying that they saw Michael Brown on his knees with his hands up and was executed by a cop. Under further examination and under penalty of perjury, they all admitted to seeing nothing but were just recounting what they believed to be true. There must be a preponderance of evidence, unassailable before a death sentence can be administered but I absolutely believe that there are crimes that deserve death as long as you have the proof.


The govt shouldn’t be subsidizing any industry. Allow the market to prevail.



In a perfect world where every country believed that, I would agree but subsidizing in and of itself, is not always the problem. It is who gets subsidized and why that matters most and farming is a clear example of how this has gone wrong because most farming is now on an industrial level and given to people who do not deserve it. I remember a 60 minute piece on how Al Gore and others like him, already millionaires, getting subsidies because they let cattle graze on their land or some such crap and he didn't need that money to survive like many small farmers do. Above all, we must ensure that America can feed it's own and if that takes a subsidy, so be it but anybody can see that farm subsidies and oil and gas subsidies are misused. It is the misuse that is the problem IMHO. Much reform is needed but of course special interest in both parties prevents this.


I don’t care how many guns people buy, they just need to register them. I don’t necessarily believe folks need or should have access to high rate of fire semi automatic rifles with high capacity magazines. We did fine with them being limited through the 80s and 90s. But since they are out there, tax and register them. Pass tighter more restrictive forfeiture laws and enhanced penalties for use of firearms in a crime.



I disagree on registration. All that leads to is the ability of a government one day knowing exactly whose house to raid. It gives to much power to the government. I don't believe in punishing law abiding people from having guns but I do draw the line at "open carry" like showing up in the Michigan capital or any other such place carrying AR's. I believe you should have the right to own them, keep them in your home, transport them for work or recreation but the penalties I would put on the misuse of these weapons would be shocking to most I would suspect. If you carry a firearm in the commission of a felony, you get either life in prison or the death penalty if you use that weapon whether you hurt anybody or not. An example would be bank robbery, home invasion. Owning a firearm is a right, using it improperly is not a right and should cost you dearly. I think stop and frisk in high crime areas is necessary. If those high crime areas happen to be Black or Brown or White neighborhoods, to bad. You put cops where the crime is and you stomp it out by example.


Though I’m no proponent of forgiving student loans I see the economic benefit to doing so at this time but it should be a one time thing. And screw everybody that came before and after? Nope. The largest bill most college grads will face is the student loan. Economically it’d be better for them to come out prepared to buy a house or car rather than paying 400-500 monthly in student loans for 10-15 years. The slate needs to be cleaned because the amount of student debt is disproportionate to the benefit of the college degree but most students would never know that. Then tell them that and don't give loans to just anybody that hasn't proven they can make use of that money. College tuitions are way out of whack.



Yes college tuition are out of whack but to completely forgive existing loans while somebody just spent a life time paying theirs off, would be a slap in the face and I suspect the most controversial part of my argument would be to pay off loans for somebody that had no business going to college in the first place. Not every student is prepared for college and many don't need college. Changing the system is better than giving undeserving people money. You take out a loan for a Gender Studies degree or an Art major and other such "non-essential" fields and you are on your own. Don't ask for my tax dollars to support a Gender Studies Major. Yes, lets reform this problem but wholesale forgiveness of debt is not the way to go.


Russia and China are adversaries and competitors and should be treated as such. Neither has US interest at heart snd both should be dealt with at arms length. Neither can be trusted.



Agree but putting Russia and China in the same category is like comparing a six shooter with an AR. Russia is absolutely no threat to us beyond cyber attacks and meddling. They are nothing more than a corner gas station with nuclear weapons that they can never use. They represent no threat economically or militarily to us. China, now that's a whole different ball game and I see no evidence yet that this group of Democrats realize this and are willing to do anything about it.


I’m likely a little too hawkish but that a function of having been in the army and thus my opinion on dealing with the likes of NK and some countries in the Middle East would require too lengthy a post.



I too am more hawkish than not and will also leave it there


Religious freedom is simply an excuse for businesses to discriminate, generally speaking. In the past when there were limited options the market couldn’t prevail against them so antidiscrimination laws were needed. Not so much anymore. Which says to me that as far as "Systemic Racism" exist, I would say, not so much any more, certainly not to the extent that these Democrats say. I say let the market prevail. Baker doesn’t wanna make a Adam and Adam cake then gays can boycott and tell all their friends not to use that vendor snd they can find a vendor that them and their friends can use. Baker gets his way and gays can support a gay friendly business. Same with race creed and whatever else.



I completely agree with the baker analogy which I'll point out again, the party you support and voted for do not agree with you but you support them anyway just like I do with some so called Republican measures but I think an exception should be made in areas like public accommodation. You want to open a hotel or a lunch counter, you can not discriminate by color or any other category because of religion or anything else accept perhaps un-rulyness. You can't turn people away for food or shelter ( housing ).You don't want to bake a cake for a gay couple or Black, Brown or White people, there are plenty that will. No need for the heavy hand of government to interfere and this would be one of the MAJOR problems I have with the Democrat party.


Cancel culture or whatever you wanna call it, not my thing. But it most certainly is "the thing" of the party you support and just voted for. How many times have I said that now? But unfortunately people have gotten to where they believe there should be no repercussions from their actions. Personal opinions are not actions. It is personal opinions that are at the heart of cancel culture and is is wrong, period. In the good old days we fixed a lot of problems immediately. A guy called me a certain word, he’d take his asswhipping (which is what he was asking for clearly) and maybe next time he’d think twice about doing that because he’d know there were repercussions. Yes, like you going to jail for assaulting somebody for calling you a name. If that person was "menacing" you and you felt "threatened" with immediate bodily harm, yes but calling you a name in passing, no. Sadly those days are gone and people think they can do pretty much anything or say anything without any repercussions. I suppose the modern version of that is boycotting and outing people in a pretty massive way with the help of social media. You mean the cowardly way of getting even with people you don't know and never meet? Social media is a scourge that will only get worse with the cancel culture this Democrat party endorses.

I have no idea of Biden did anything illegal. Neither do I but I suspect that he did ( just like you suspect Trump and his children did and if they did, they should be prosecuted ) from what has been reported and corroborated. What I am sure of, is that he told one whopping big lie about not knowing what his son was doing which may not be criminal for Joe, unless it can be shown that Joe profited from those illegal actions by Hunter that Joe "facilitated" and there seems to be evidence that he did. but have seen his taxes so there is that. Unless he’s sitting on millions in cash, which I would say is highly unlikely, mainly because unlike on TV washing that kind of money is extremely difficult and near impossible especially for a public figure. If Joe wanted to make millions in China he could have simply gone there and said to any company “hire me to lobby for you, That's the deal that Hunter seems to have made in Joe's name and did Joe know that is the question at hand. Third party testimony says Joe did. I’m connected to all aspects of US govt and can help with regulations” and he could be paid whatever amount without issue. There’s no need for any criminal enterprise. Then what is "influence peddling" if Joe knew what Hunter was doing in his name and lied about it? These are all legitimate questions that Biden should address. Truthfully Hunter likely did just that and it wouldn’t have been illegal to do so. Then they have nothing to worry about. Will see what the FBI comes up with. Now not reporting the income is illegal or what’s more likely is misreporting and deductions. And you know for sure Joe didn't do that? That’s why I asked for specificity as to what LAW is believed to have been broken in this so called criminal enterprise. Just because something looks bad doesn’t mean it’s illegal. Even if it should be. Yeah, kinda like being accused of "talking to Russians". Looks bad and if you are in any way connected to Trump, it is automatically deemed illegal. All I want is equal application of the law for everybody.

Trump is a prime example of that. In 2016 it’s clear that his campaign welcomed Russia interfering through suppression and disinformation campaigns and it looks like Roger Stone was aware of Russian activity coordinated through Wikileaks. Yeah, it could look that way, it also could look like a braggard which both Tump and Stone are. BTW, was Stone convicted of conspiracy with WikiLeaks to interfere in the election? And is "knowing" something was perhaps illegal but you played no part in obtaining that information illegally, criminal? I'm thinking Pentagon Papers. Reporting/ saying something that was illegal is not the same as being involved in that illegal activity. Trump in trying to defend himself (from possible criminal charges maybe or just because he though it delegitimized his win) also hampered the investigation in Russia’s operation,


https://www.vox.com/2019/7/24/207083...uction-justice

who was aware and who might have had knowledge of what the Russians were attempting to achieve. Unfortunately, we might never know the extent of Russias activities in 2016. I have no clue what Trump knew or when. An important distinction that I hope you will allow me to use in talking about Joe Biden. I find it difficult to believe he was unaware of the attention Russians were given his campaign or people in his campaign. And would being aware of what the Russians were trying to achieve be illegal or merely un-seemly?


Trump’s current “legal” fight about the election is a money grab. Gee, that sounds an awful lot like an allegation which you recently accuse me of doing, making un-substantiated allegations. He and his family and staff know he’s gone in 2 weeks. In fact they’ve known that for over a month. MelanIa had begun packing and finding a new school for Baron before the election was called. The cry of massive election fraud was always a sucker move. He and anyone in the know always knew that it didn’t exist. No one has ever proven massive fraud in the modern era. But it’s an easy sell and Trump supporters haven’t shown themselves to be able to think beyond what they read on Parler or hear from right wing media even when it makes zero sense. I think the people who have really dug into this, know there were irregularities and illegal acts committed by state officials, like Stacey Abrams "compromising" with the Georgia Secy of State to change election rules which they were not legally authorized to do. Only the Georgia Legislature was allowed to do that. Same thing in Penn. and other states. That happened. It is a fact. It is also a fact that the SC refused to consider the merits of that allegation, saying that the petitioner didn't have "standing" another ridiculous argument considering that the only place a state can sue another state is at the SC. How could you not have standing? And then there was "why didn't you bring to court sooner what you didn't know till later"? Another stupid ruling IMHO. The SC just didn't want to get their hands dirty and said the states should "clean up their own mess" with regard to changing laws and that was that.

Just like you (HF and Tiny) I don’t claim either side is free of fault. Now you admit that is what I said and believe? I’m sure I’m actually less a partisan than either of you and I'll speak for Tony here, I don't think he'll mind when I say "I don't buy that for a minute". though I have a particular disdain for the Trump party and prior to them Tea Party. As I have disdain for the leaders of and the Democrat party as a whole. That doesn't make me a Republican. I just don't like what those leaders and that party stand for. Neither are true republicans. Let's see, another allegation based on you opinion. Unless you want to provide factual proof of what a "real Republican is" and "must" believe. I think I have lost count of the allegations you make. Let's just concede that you and I and everybody on this board make allegations on a regular basis based on our opinions. Mainly because they are the most hypocritical folks in congress and they have been terrible for the function of congress and government. Wow! The mother of all allegations based on one's opinion. You almost sound like you don't believe any Democrats are hypocrites after all the times I have posted YouTube video's of Democrats saying one thing months or years ago and saying something different today. They thrive to make government ineffectual and dysfunctional and believe compromise is a dirty word. Yeah, and Democrts are all about compromise? Nancy Pelosi would not compromise giving Trump a win until after the election and then settled for less than Trump and Republicans were offering for nothing more than partisan reasons

The progressives in the Democratic Party I feel similarly about. though there are far fewer of them than alleged by Fox and the folks on this site. And you say that like it is a fact. Count the number of Tea Party members and compare it to the number of Progressives if you want to prove your point. Otherwise you are just making up numbers not presenting facts. AOC and the squad have no power and don’t affect leadership or any bills being passed. You're a little ahead of you ski's since this new administration and Congress hasn't put forth anything other than removing the distinction between Men and Woman. Of course that had to be the first order of business SMH. In fact it’s clear that’s the case because they’re complaining that they aren’t part of the leadership or the bullpen and aren’t being mentored for leadership. Their negotiating power is more an irritant than anything else. And yet Biden picks the most Progressive Senator he could find in Harris. The moderates rule the Democratic Party and likely always will. An other opinion not based in fact since the future hasn't happened yet. Do you see the problem you have with statements like that? I suspect Better, you didn't start with "in fact" in 2022 we’ll see more moderates return for those seats lost mainly because Trump won’t be on the ballot and republican turnout won’t overperform as they did in Nov. Also, Democratic messaging will be moderated after the progressives lost the party seats in 2020. See you back here in 2022 to see who was right

I’m always welcome to engage in sensible debate on real issues. and you get to decide what is sensible and not. Got it! But that’s it really what this forum is about. It’s silly, filled with stupidity, hyperpartison and unserious. Which IMHO you add to.with the likes of Dilly the Dummy, Wimp Dixie the racist, Neverthinker, Oebby the chief Idiot, LexusLiar, Barfycorny, Wacky and Levi the Loon, And not one person from the left like WTF, YR and many more who never write anything of substance and whose whole purpose of being here is to call people names and act with child like petulance?without too much nuance because they clearly have a lack of understanding and only believe what Trump or Kilmeade and Hannity substitute Rachael Maddow and Don Lemon here tells them it’s ok to believe. See, that's the kind of bullshit you should leave out of these discussions. That isn't substantive, what you just wrote, not even close but it is exactly what you engage in constantly, "kill the messenger", "you source that rag"? Just dispute what you see and leave all that crap out of these discussions. You think something I post from a media source is bull shit, explain why and I then counter but you always have to start with something disparaging and it is tiresome and you could be better than that. It is constant with you and it does not lend to a substantive debate

One can’t debate against obstinance You're telling me? You are the poster child of obstinance. and there is no real debate when there’s no agreement on the facts.

The facts? And you are the decider of the "facts". No arrogance there, huh?


So, have I been unclear, evasive, confusing? Did I obfuscate? How about you and I start 2021 with real substantive debate dropping this idea that either of us are reporting facts and merely giving our opinions and instead of debating the merits of where an opinion came from, we debate the merits of the opinion no matter where it comes from or who said it. Wishful thinking on my part I'll bet. Happy New Year to you.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Hedonist doesn't drink the Kool Aid. Yes, from time-to-time he sucks a little in, swishes it around in his mouth, but ultimately he always spits it out. Hedonist does not swallow. He's like those Pentecostals who play around with venomous snakes but manage not to get bit.

Since you brought it up, you've been towing the party line 100% of the time. Very true . Do you believe Democrats are 100% right? If not, how about some criticism of particular left-of-center policies you disagree with from time to time? Just do it. WTF and I do. Even Hedonist does. It's good for the soul, and useful for self enlightenment.

Thanks Tiny. I was just about to tell 1blackman1, let's let Tiny decide if what you "alleged" about me is true. So thanks for your input.


Simply leave out the un-necessary allegations of this and that and debate the merits of what is said, no matter where it came from or who said it and let's all not pretend we know facts when all we have are opinions unless we are talking about settled court cases.


Happy New Year Sir. Your opinions are always an interesting read even if I don't agree but I usually do. We should known in a few hours whether you opinion that Trump just might have screwed the Republican party with his antics. If Republicans don't vote because of his antics and Democrats gain the Senate, it will 100% be Trump's fault for discouraging Republicans and we are indeed screwed for at least the next 2 years.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

The progressives in the Democratic Party I feel similarly about. though there are far fewer of them than alleged by Fox and the folks on this site. AOC and the squad have no power and don’t affect leadership or any bills being passed. In fact it’s clear that’s the case because they’re complaining that they aren’t part of the leadership or the bullpen and aren’t being mentored for leadership. Their negotiating power is more an irritant than anything else. The moderates rule the Democratic Party and likely always will. I suspect in 2022 we’ll see more moderates return for those seats lost mainly because Trump won’t be on the ballot and republican turnout won’t overperform as they did in Nov. Also, Democratic messaging will be moderated after the progressives lost the party seats in 2020.

So, I no sooner finish reading the above, 1blackman1 theory about how the Squad have no power and don't effect leadership. I come across this.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hou...green-new-deal
Pressley says House rules pave way for Green New Deal, socialized health care

The progressive agenda seemed more likely to succeed Monday after the House approved rules that would purportedly exempt policies like "Medicare for All" and the Green New Deal from a fiscal responsibility measure aimed at offsetting deficit increases with additional revenue.

Congress initially passed the "PAYGO" or pay-as-you-go rule in 1990 but it expired in 2002. Democrats later reinstated the rule in 2007 but former President Obama carved out room for the 2009 stimulus designed to absord the impact of the financial crisis.


The new exemption, approved on a party-line vote (217-206), applies to the COVID-19 response and efforts to address climate change. More specifically, H. Res. 8 allows the Budget Committee Chair to "exempt the budgetary effects of measures to prevent, prepare for, or respond to economic, environmental, or public health consequences resulting from climate change.









Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley

This is huge.

These reforms remove 2 structural barriers to our agenda for equity and justice and will allow us to advance bold policies like Medicare for All, a Green New Deal and an equitable COVID recovery.

Thank you @RepJayapal and @RepMcGovern for your leadership.


The House Progressive Caucus similarly cheered the idea as a way to prevent "big ideas" from getting "bogged down by procedural hurdles or harmful austerity measures."
So 1blackman1 you seem to be wrong in your assumptions. Right out of the gate, the first moves are to placate the Squad and their Progressive ( not Moderate ) supporters.

It's so much fun to absolutely, unequivocally prove you wrong. Made my day.

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

How about you and I start 2021 with real substantive debate dropping this idea that either of us are reporting facts and merely giving our opinions and instead of debating the merits of where an opinion came from, we debate the merits of the opinion no matter where it comes from or who said it. Happy New Year to you.

I’m more than willing to do so with you and Tiny.

Let’s not take too big a step though as some others won’t wanna play nice.

Shame on it?

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

So 1blackman1 you seem to be wrong in your assumptions. Right out of the gate, the first moves are to placate the Squad and their Progressive ( not Moderate ) supporters.

I can think of a million reason to get rid of paygo. Mainly that it’s a cudgel used in preventing passing any large legislation. I’m ok with it going away. I don’t believe the last tax cut was paid for so if one side doesn’t take Paygo seriously then neither should the other.

We shall see what legislation gets passed.