The facts do not justify the fear

[SecretE]

I'm waiting until the mass rollout of testing in the United States before coming to any final conclusions about how it will affect the USA. China couldn't contain the virus in its borders, and they probably violated every single human right in the book to try to prevent the spread....and I wouldn't put it past them to underreport the effects within their own borders. Right now, I am acting like this will not be contained, will infect a significant portion of the population, and will cause a lot of needless deaths, if people don't panic, but still take this seriously (percentages be damned...even a small percentage of a lot of people is still a lot of people in my book).

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

CDC has the numbers. So far Corona is pissing in a hurricane.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...-estimates.htm

Sad part is that 1/3 or so of the population is so fucking warped they’d like to see at least a million corona deaths, as it may cause political damage to the President.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by HoeHummer

Please go to the nearest mall and lick the escalators railings.

Probably safer than what you lick in Canada!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Sad part is that 1/3 or so of the population is so fucking warped they’d like to see at least a million corona deaths, as it may cause political damage to the President.

Same with the stock market, the economy, and jobs!

They are wishing death, famine, and bankruptcies to get rid of Trump!

Since they couldn't nullify the election, convict him, or throw him out of office.

Self-proving their utter incompetence.

[Jacuzzme]

double post

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by SecretE

I'm waiting until the mass rollout of testing in the United States before coming to any final conclusions about how it will affect the USA. China couldn't contain the virus in its borders, and they probably violated every single human right in the book to try to prevent the spread....and I wouldn't put it past them to underreport the effects within their own borders. Right now, I am acting like this will not be contained, will infect a significant portion of the population, and will cause a lot of needless deaths, if people don't panic, but still take this seriously (percentages be damned...even a small percentage of a lot of people is still a lot of people in my book).

I think a reasonable person and you sound like a reasonable person....so far, will judge this by comparing it to flu hospitalizations and deaths.

Conclusion. CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.Jan 8, 2020

The prior season saw 61,000 deaths.Jan 30, 2020

Now, if this corona outbreak doesn't exceed those numbers, everything done will been seen by reasonable, non partisans, as a reasonable response to a new virus that we had no vaccine for and without years and years of the build up of antibodies to the flu.


Political partisans are taking the advice of Saul Alinsky "never let a crisis go to waste"

crises that can be exploited to advance political agendas.

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

First let me thank you for responding to my question. I thought you had given up on following through on questions which I didn't think was like you. Let me start with your P.S.


The Chief judges 19 page letter was without question, a "development".

Definition of development



1: the act, process, or result of developingthe development of new ideasan interesting development in the case
The judges response to this "ongoing story" that started months ago when the Horowitz report told us that an FBI agent had changed the words in a document used to get a FISA warrant. That was a development in the initial report that possible FISA abuse had occurred.


So here is the development. FISA abuse questioned. Horowitz investigates. Finds and FBI lawyer doctored and e-mail changing the understanding of whether the investigation had a legal predicate. Conclusion "mistakes were made" plenty of them. Were they actual mistakes or premeditated? See how this story is "developing"?


Now comes a brand new Chief judge and his conclusion "seems to be", no, they were not just mistakes but appear to be premeditated. That is the definition of a "bombshell" finding. This goes from mistakes, to criminal activity and multiple people within the FBI and DOJ are now barred from participating in any further input into a FISA warrant. I think that may be a president never before seen in the FBI. Now if this doesn't meet the definition of a developing story, then nothing will.



And yes, I use blue to distinguish my comments from what might be somebody else's words.

Thinking "nothing will happen" is separate from acknowledging that a story is developing. That aspect simply can not be rationally denied. Did anything happen to Trump as a result of the Mueller report? Was it then not a "developing story" because "nothing happened"? Surely you can see this but for what ever reason, you just can't bring yourself to admit what everybody can see.

Thank you for the compliment that you enjoy my writing as grammatically faulty as it may be.
Let me try and deconstruct your opening remarks which I find "problematic".

Opinions are hypothesizing based on facts.

Well, that's what it should be but we all base our opinions on what we hear and see, hopefully from more than one source but how do we know they are facts? You, all of us really, question if something is a fact based on who said it which you did in the beginning of this thread. Solomon said it? Nope, don't believe it without even doing any research to see if it was true and then when it is proven to be true, you dismiss it as not being anything worth considering.

Reports, on the other hand, are just facts.
Not necessarily. There are all kinds of reports that are not factual and the FISA abuse story lays this out in spades. I would offer that some "reports" are full of "hypothesized" conclusions. I think it is why the FISA requirement that everything in the application must be verified, is there, for that very reason. They are acknowledging that some reports do include "hypotheses" and that will not be allowed in reports submitted to the FISA court while in other jurisdictions, I'm sure " we think there are drugs in that apartment because the guy that just went in is a known drug dealer", will be enough for a warrant.

As clinical, sterile, and sanitized as possible.

Didn't happen in this FISA abuse case which makes it a "story" and a developing one at that even though it hasn't reached it's conclusion, another definition of developing.

Any self-respecting citizen should be able to discern the difference between an opinion and a report.
Not if a corrupt person has prepared the report. Again, let's see how many "self-repecting citizens looked at the FBI lawyers report and will now make the case in their own self defense, that they "assumed" it was clinical, sterile and as sanitized as possible but it wasn't. It was assumed that the FBI lawyer would not submit an opinion and he presented his conclusion as not his opinion but a fact based on what he was told but he lied and changed the wording of what he was told for a corrupt purpose or so the FISA judge says he has concluded. His report was not a fact but a lie.

This leads me to your ill-fated previous thread here. The one about the "21 words". Yes! The information in it was correct. Yes! I dismissed the reliability of the information. C'mon man! Consider the source.



"Ill fated"?



And this I find troubling. You have just admitted that you dismissed information because of the source and you want me to acknowledge that this is a proper thing to do when you have just been proven wrong to do so? And instead of saying "in the future I will research what has been said regardless of who said it, to see if it is factual", you try to justify your mistake. Don't give me this "C'mon man consider the source". While I may be skeptical of a source, the very first thing I do, is see if I can verify from other sources if what was said is true. All you had to do was find that report, which BTW was right there in my post ( not to rub it in ) but you didn't. You let "the source" be the end of your consideration and that should never be the case for any self respecting citizen.

Good read. Who else is following lead? Are there any other reporters, journalists, bloggers or columnists on the beat?

I still don't see this going anywhere. Is the docket that full? This is a specific issue with a specific court deaigned to deal with specific issues like this. Is it because nobody wants this to go anywhere? The lawyers fucked up. The judge fucked up. The law is fucked up. It's a dead issue. IMHO.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

Good read. Who else is following lead? Are there any other reporters, journalists, bloggers or columnists on the beat?


Yes and they are all on the right. Big surprise huh? A Chief judge on the FISA court bans FBI and DOJ persons from further participation in court matters, something probably never having been done in the history of the FBI and DOJ and we are waiting to see if the FBI lawyer gets indicted and I'm guessing he will but it doesn't interest you. Believe me, I believe you aren't interested and I know why you aren't interested because it just might hurt your cause. I get it, I understand how rapid partisanship works. All to familiar with it.


I still don't see this going anywhere. Is the docket that full? This is a specific issue with a specific court deaigned to deal with specific issues like this.


Yeah, the corruption at the highest levels of the FBI, DOJ and quite possibly ( my bet is yes ) the CIA. Minor things like that.


Is it because nobody wants this to go anywhere?


Bingo! That is exactly what the left wants and they want it badly because this could potentially bring down some very powerful people.


The lawyers fucked up.


And FBI lawyer's "fucking up" doesn't interest you?


The judge fucked up.



Judges fucking up doesn't interest you?


The law is fucked up.


The law wasn't followed, that is what is fucked up.


It's a dead issue. IMHO.

You mean you hope it's a dead issue because this is the kind of issue, if I'm correct, that could turn the election.



This won't be dead unless Durham comes back with no criminal indicts. Then and only then will this be dead

[SecretE]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

I think a reasonable person and you sound like a reasonable person....so far, will judge this by comparing it to flu hospitalizations and deaths.

Conclusion. CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.Jan 8, 2020

The prior season saw 61,000 deaths.Jan 30, 2020

Now, if this corona outbreak doesn't exceed those numbers, everything done will been seen by reasonable, non partisans, as a reasonable response to a new virus that we had no vaccine for and without years and years of the build up of antibodies to the flu.


Political partisans are taking the advice of Saul Alinsky "never let a crisis go to waste"

crises that can be exploited to advance political agendas.

I appreciate the respect. We will see. Until then, I'm err'ing on the side of caution, and I'm not going to feel ashamed for doing so, even if this ends up having the same effect as the common flu.

Out of curiosity, has anyone considered that perhaps people of Chinese (or at least that region of the world's) descent have an immune system that is better suited to fight off this infection versus people not of that descent? Perhaps that is why South Korea was able to stop the spread easier versus an Italy? I don't want to get into theories about COVID-19 being a "weaponized" flu to combat the influence of the western world...just strictly genetics and how well people of different ancestry can handle fighting off the infection.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

I still don't see this going anywhere. Is the docket that full? This is a specific issue with a specific court deaigned to deal with specific issues like this. Is it because nobody wants this to go anywhere? The lawyers fucked up. The judge fucked up. The law is fucked up. It's a dead issue. IMHO.

let see here.. i have a problem with your thinking that its a dead issue.


for the people who were affected by the fbi malpractice, its not a dead issue. they were obviously harmed by it.



people expect fairness in our institutions, what went on with the fisa court was not fair by any metric.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by SecretE

I appreciate the respect. We will see. Until then, I'm err'ing on the side of caution, and I'm not going to feel ashamed for doing so, even if this ends up having the same effect as the common flu.

Out of curiosity, has anyone considered that perhaps people of Chinese (or at least that region of the world's) descent have an immune system that is better suited to fight off this infection versus people not of that descent? Perhaps that is why South Korea was able to stop the spread easier versus an Italy? I don't want to get into theories about COVID-19 being a "weaponized" flu to combat the influence of the western world...just strictly genetics and how well people of different ancestry can handle fighting off the infection.

its possible that those of chinese descent have better immune responses to fight this type of infection but that's unlikely. China bore the brunt of this infection going at 80,000 (assuming the numbers are accurate given the nature of the CCP propensity for lying)

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by SecretE

I appreciate the respect. We will see. Until then, I'm err'ing on the side of caution, and I'm not going to feel ashamed for doing so, even if this ends up having the same effect as the common flu.

Out of curiosity, has anyone considered that perhaps people of Chinese (or at least that region of the world's) descent have an immune system that is better suited to fight off this infection versus people not of that descent? Perhaps that is why South Korea was able to stop the spread easier versus an Italy? I don't want to get into theories about COVID-19 being a "weaponized" flu to combat the influence of the western world...just strictly genetics and how well people of different ancestry can handle fighting off the infection.

close but not quite right. it's not genetics it's built up immunity from the crappy food supply in China. they eat rotten crap food so regularly .. daily .. that it doesn't affect them so much anymore. they live in squalor, eat crap and breathe air so bad it would "cure" smoker's hack.



the crappy food processing in China is what caused this to begin with. and Bird flu and Swine flu. China is a filthy nasty pollution filled shithole.

[eccieuser9500]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

You mean you hope it's a dead issue because this is the kind of issue, if I'm correct, that could turn the election.



This won't be dead unless Durham comes back with no criminal indicts. Then and only then will this be dead

No. You yourself said the only people who see a story "are all on the right". It's the kind of "news" only those on the far right wing is worth telling. Like Sean Hannity. That's what I mean.

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

let see here.. i have a problem with your thinking that its a dead issue.


for the people who were affected by the fbi malpractice, its not a dead issue. they were obviously harmed by it.

Cry me a river.

people expect fairness in our institutions, what went on with the fisa court was not fair by any metric.

What people?

Prosecutors and judges fucking over the elite is funny to those of us who have been fucked over by prosecutors and judges. Story? No. Not to me.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by SecretE

Out of curiosity, has anyone considered that perhaps people of Chinese (or at least that region of the world's) descent have an immune system that is better suited to fight off this infection...

Countries with less restraint on their governments have a better chance to isolate and mandate their citizens into anti-virus behavior. "Hoarding" and other anti-social activity can be quelled with a directive.

[Missburger]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

Maybe the only time you will ever hear me quote and agree with the Governor of New York.


Listening to Cuomo give a press conference where he is speaking the way we would like to hear all our leaders speak especially on the Left who may try and make this political.


Cuomo said that the President and Vice President "acted swiftly" and he ought to know.


Went to my local grocery store last night and the shelves were practically bare like you would expect days before a hurricane was due to strike. Ridiculous. Food will be delivered everyday, there is no food shortage. Stop spreading fear!

toilet paper shortage lol