The Incredible Scam of Rooftop Solar

[dilbert firestorm]

https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...top_solar.html


Utility-scale solar costing seven cents is a big waste of money. Rooftop solar costing 30 cents is insane. Special interests – the solar industry and environmentalist crackpots – have convinced legislatures and public utility commissions to stack the deck with net metering and absurdly high tiered electric rates. The result is to make it profitable for homeowners to invest in what otherwise would be very expensive electricity. Society as a whole pays for the economic waste, amounting typically to 28 cents per kilowatt-hour of rooftop electricity.


Here is an example of rooftop solar that costs 30 cents a kilowatt-hour. A 5-kilowatt rooftop system costs about $21,000 installed. It will generate 7,000 kilowatt-hours per year. If it is financed over 20 years at 8% interest, the annual payment will be $2,139. The cost per kilowatt-hour is $2,139/7,000 = $0.306, or 30.6 cents per kilowatt-hour. Of course, costs and interest rates vary, as does sunshine. If you think 8% is too high for the interest rate, ask yourself if you would loan your neighbor $21,000 for 20 years for less. Rooftop solar is expensive compared to utility-scale solar, because it is a small custom installation. The orientation and slope of the house roof may be less than ideal. Large-scale utility solar, in contrast, can be as cheap as seven cents per kilowatt-hour.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Residential solar that is leased not owned is a stupid idea for the home owner. you get mere pennies of a discount over regular utility rates. And you don't own it so you don't control it. While it wouldn't make much sense for these outfits like Solar City to come in an rip the panels off your roof if you sell the house but they can. So you can't guarantee the unit as a selling feature.

i looked at a solar system a few years back as a owned system. i would not even consider letting Musky boi and his cousins put Solar City panels on my house that they own and control. Or anyone else. The system would have cost 15k (10k after rebate) and provided 75% of my power with a 50% reduction in my bill. it would have paid for itself in 7 years. far better than the pennies of the top you'd get with leased solar.

i opted not to do it because my AC unit is about 10 years old and a 14 SEER rated builder grade unit. i had a home warranty at the time and it cost me 75 dollars for a mid grade 2,300 dollar system. that, by the way, is a downside of home warranties, you get only the cheap unit at minimum rating standards. on the upside it cost $75.

American Home Warranty won't let you take the cash and apply it to a system of your own suiting. i'm not aware of any home warranty outfit that will, at least not then, 10 years ago. i may re-visit that.at the least these outfits should allow the customer to pay the extra above the builder grade unit, if so i might try the warranty again.

problem is the unit is only 10 years old and will probably last 10 to 15 more years. they won't replace it unless they have to. all they will do otherwise is fix it.

i can of course simply pay out of pocket for a newer most efficient system. I've had some AC people claim that can cut your bill in half for less than the 10k after rebate for that solar system. it depends on what the two systems today would cost. I'd have to re-price the solar system and compare with a state of the art AC unit. it's probably pretty close.

[friendly fred]

Those home warranties rarely pay off and are a big hassle.

[rexdutchman]

Agreed and your point , We should take all the monies dumped into this BS and upgrade the system and roads

[RetiredSubmariner]

I live in a town of 235 people. Our town has two roads that intersect here. The power grid in our town runs along one of our roads, but not the other road.

Our power 'grid' is not truly a 'grid'. The power lines run through our town and then daisy chain through the next 15 townships. This region of the state is mostly dense forest. Over 92% of our entire state is private-owned forest. Whenever there is a wind storm trees blow down, and some of those trees will blow down on the power line, knocking out power from that spot and all towns downstream of that spot.

We lose power at least once a month, every month.

Most of our neighbors rely on generators. Most homes have two generators. One large genny that can power every load in the house, and one small genny that can only power a few lights and the PCs. These people will run their small genny all day and night, for one gallon of fuel. Then once a day they fire-up their big genny, so they can flush toilets, do laundry, take showers, wash dishes, and to keep the chest freezers cold [gotta keep the moose meet frozen] all on one gallon of fuel.

Neighbors who do not have generators, simply do not have any electricity in their homes.

In 2015, we installed solar power for our farm. Yes, it is more expensive. But we wanted to have power all month long, every month.

For four years we tried brooding chicks, but we were never able to keep an electric brooder going for 21-days straight because the power would always go out.

The IRS requires that solar system depreciates over 7 years.
So for the first 7 years, you take 1/7th of the total system cost off your taxes as a write-off.

That has a huge effect on the 'pay-back' of off-grid solar systems.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by RetiredSubmariner

The IRS requires that solar system depreciates over 7 years.
So for the first 7 years, you take 1/7th of the total system cost off your taxes as a write-off.

huh?

it is a 30% credit, not a 1/7 deduction.

https://news.energysage.com/congress...ar-tax-credit/

[kehaar]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

huh?

it is a 30% credit, not a 1/7 deduction.

https://news.energysage.com/congress...ar-tax-credit/

I believe it is a 30% credit AND a 1/7 deduction of it is used for business purposes(it has to make money, for example by brooding chicks).

If I was in his shoes, I would do the same. I have a friend in Africa that is off grid solar, and the fundamental problem is that the batteries fail after about 1500 cycles. If you look at battery costs, they are about $0.15/kwhr. However, the avoided generator cost, and the minimal maintenance for the solar cells makes them better for backup service in many cases.

[kehaar]

That being said, the harbor freight effect(very cheap, very reliable generators) would make a strong case for generators, if you are on-site.

The amount of energy required to produce the solar cells and the supporting structure is only made up in about year 12. The pro-solar people will tell you that they are paid for in year 4-6, but that is only because of the tax credit, and the retail electricy price applied to the cost analysis, which are both bullshit.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

huh?

it is a 30% credit, not a 1/7 deduction.

https://news.energysage.com/congress...ar-tax-credit/

correct, it is a 30% credit. and without that .. it would be prohibitively expensive.

[kehaar]

If it is a business investment, it is also depreciatable.

[rexdutchman]

Play with the Numbers enough and anything sounds good

[grean]

True or false. Would you get more net savings by attaching your house to a hamster wheel?

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by kehaar

If it is a business investment, it is also depreciatable.

yes it would be, and the link Chung posted states that the tax credit applies to businesses so they double dip so to speak, they get the tax break then they can depreciate per standard accounting schedules for business assets.


if i owned commercial real estate i'd look into putting solar on these buildings big time. you get the tax break, the depreciation and whatever reduction on the utility expenses. even if its only 10% when your heating/cooling costs for commercial building can be of tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands that can be a serious boost to profits.

[RetiredSubmariner]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

huh?

it is a 30% credit, not a 1/7 deduction.

https://news.energysage.com/congress...ar-tax-credit/

I am a farmer. I can not swing a dead cat without hitting another tax depreciation.

Even without the tax credits, you still get the depreciation.

Originally Posted by grean

True or false. Would you get more net savings by attaching your house to a hamster wheel?

After infrastructure, food and vet bills, to give you 1/28th of a watt of power?

It would take thousands of hamsters to power a house.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by RetiredSubmariner

I am a farmer. I can not swing a dead cat without hitting another tax depreciation.

Even without the tax credits, you still get the depreciation.

After infrastructure, food and vet bills, to give you 1/28th of a watt of power?

It would take thousands of hamsters to power a house.