Welcome to ECCIE, become a part of the fastest growing adult community. Take a minute & sign up!

Welcome to ECCIE - Sign up today!

Become a part of one of the fastest growing adult communities online. We have something for you, whether you’re a male member seeking out new friends or a new lady on the scene looking to take advantage of our many opportunities to network, make new friends, or connect with people. Join today & take part in lively discussions, take advantage of all the great features that attract hundreds of new daily members!

Go Premium

Go Back   ECCIE Worldwide > General Interest > The Political Forum
test
The Political Forum Discuss anything related to politics in this forum. World politics, US Politics, State and Local.

Most Favorited Images
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
Most Liked Images
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
Top Reviewers
cockalatte 649
MoneyManMatt 490
Still Looking 399
samcruz 399
Jon Bon 398
Harley Diablo 377
honest_abe 362
DFW_Ladies_Man 313
Chung Tran 288
lupegarland 287
nicemusic 285
Starscream66 282
You&Me 281
George Spelvin 270
sharkman29 256
Top Posters
DallasRain70819
biomed163644
Yssup Rider61241
gman4453346
LexusLover51038
offshoredrilling48796
WTF48267
pyramider46370
bambino43221
The_Waco_Kid37398
CryptKicker37228
Mokoa36497
Chung Tran36100
Still Looking35944
Mojojo33117

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2019, 05:30 PM   #1
oeb11
Valued Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 31, 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 23,345
Default Article III of the Constitution.

The definition of Treason in America.



By Steve Vladeck, professor at the University of Texas School of Law


In a nationwide survey released on Wednesday, Public Policy Polling asked Americans “What do you think is more treasonous: coordinating with Russia to win a presidential election, or not standing and applauding for Donald Trump?” Whatever one’s political beliefs or disposition toward the current president, the correct answer should have been “neither.” (Instead, 69% said it was the former.)
Among other things, the mere existence of this question underscores the need for a long overdue moratorium on the blithe characterization of things as “treason”— and for all of us to be far more careful when using that term to describe conduct that we believe is some combination of reprehensible, criminal and perhaps even impeachable.
Treasonous acts may be criminal, but criminal acts are almost never treason. As Article III, Section 3 of the Constitution specifies, “Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.” The Founders went out of their way to define treason narrowly because they knew how it had been repeatedly abused in the past.
The Founders went out of their way to define treason narrowly because they knew how it had been repeatedly abused in the past.

For much of the pre-revolutionary period in England, the accusation was a means of suppressing political dissent and punishing political opponents for crimes as trivial as contemplating a king’s future death (what was known as “compassing”), or speaking ill of the king (“lèse majesté”). King Henry VIII even had two of his six wives executed for alleged adultery on the ground that such infidelity was, of itself, “treason.” The English abuse of treason was anathema to a nascent republic dedicated to the rule of law and the right of peaceful dissent.
Thus, to ensure that treason could not likewise be co-opted for political or personal purposes, the Constitution’s drafters not only defined it precisely (it’s the only offense specifically defined in that document), but also specified that “No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.” (Article III also limits the punishment that can be inflicted, even with a conviction.)
As a federal appeals court explained in 1986: “[t]he reason for the restrictive definition is apparent from the historical backdrop of the treason clause. The framers of the Constitution were reluctant to facilitate such prosecutions because they were well aware of abuses, and they themselves were traitors in the eyes of England.” As a result, treason is, in some respects, the most specific crime in our legal system — and certainly among the hardest to prove. It’s also the only crime that can be used as the basis for expatriating a natural-born American citizen.Because of this history, a lot of things that might seem or feel like treason to casual observers do not, in fact, come close. In this context “enemies,” for example, must be countries against which Congress has formally declared war or otherwise authorized the use of force. (So contemporary Russia is out, whatever role it may have played in the 2016 election.) Even during the height of the Cold War, when Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were tried, convicted and executed for conveying nuclear secrets to the Soviet Union, the charge against them was espionage, not treason.


And “levying war” against the United States requires active and direct participation in an armed conflict, not just “un-American” speech or insufficient patriotism. Notably, and contra claims leveled against Edward Snowden or Hillary Clinton, it also do not mean the mishandling of classified information.
By those metrics, it should be obvious why it is not treason to either refuse to applaud the president or to collude with Russia to influence the outcome of a presidential election. To be sure, the latter, if proven, is light-years worse than the former. But treason is not defined by the gravity of the offense; it’s a crime indicating the clear support our enemies during wartime, period.
Treason is not defined by the gravity of the offense; it’s a crime indicating the clear support our enemies during wartime, period.

To be sure, there’s no law against the colloquial misuse of a legal term — nor should there ever be. But the more we use the t-word to refer to conduct that doesn’t remotely resemble the constitutional definition, the more we are — willfully — turning a blind eye to the sordid history of treason that led to its unique treatment in the U.S. Constitution.
And as the Spanish philosopher George Santayana reminds us, those who fail to study history are doomed to repeat it.



There are those posters who throw around the word "Traitor" with no discretion. An understanding of the word as our Constitution defines it is as above.

Is it illegal to label Manafort a "Traitor"?. He committed mainly financial crimes, was investigated,charged, arrested, indicted, and tried before a jury of his peers, and convicted. He will serve 47 months for his crimes. He is a FELON. Not convicted of Treason.
I Don't think his crimes rise to treason as defined by our Constitution.

But it is legal to hold that opinion under Amendment 1 of the Bill of Rights.

In the hysterical view of some posters - my previous paragraph is wrong, will always be wrong, and no amount of education can change the opinion. That is just fine- One is entitled to an opinion under Articlel 1.

When One refuses education and persists in doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome, There is a descriptive word for the behavior I need not state.



Perhaps a different response other than Nazi, fake news, YDKYS, Russian Collusion, - but I hold little Hope.
oeb11 is offline   Quote
Old 03-08-2019, 05:34 PM   #2
themystic
Valued Poster
 
themystic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 13, 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 7,373
Default

Nazi, fake news, YDKYS, Russian Collusion
themystic is offline   Quote
Old 03-08-2019, 05:40 PM   #3
oeb11
Valued Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 31, 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 23,345
Default

Predictable.

And uninformed.

Very Sad.
oeb11 is offline   Quote
Old 03-08-2019, 05:55 PM   #4
Hotrod511
Valued Poster
 
Hotrod511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 9, 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 2,354
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oeb11 View Post
Predictable.

And uninformed.

Very Sad.
as you may well know mystic don't know his stuff
Hotrod511 is offline   Quote
Old 03-08-2019, 05:56 PM   #5
Yssup Rider
Valued Poster
 
Yssup Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 3, 2010
Location: Clarksville
Posts: 61,241
Encounters: 67
Default

So what was the point of posting that oeb11?

What is the contention for debate?

Are you defending Manafort?

Is he a victim of a witch hunt?

Methinks you doth protest too much.
Yssup Rider is offline   Quote
Old 03-08-2019, 06:07 PM   #6
the_real_Barleycorn
Valued Poster
 
the_real_Barleycorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 20, 2017
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 5,453
Encounters: 34
Default

Mystic is adjusting trolling because his momma didn't pay him enough attention.
the_real_Barleycorn is offline   Quote
Old 03-08-2019, 06:22 PM   #7
Hotrod511
Valued Poster
 
Hotrod511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 9, 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 2,354
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yssup Rider View Post
So what was the point of posting that oeb11?

What is the contention for debate?

Are you defending Manafort?

Is he a victim of a witch hunt?

Methinks you doth protest too much.
I believe his point was to point out how poster's like yourself and the rest of the merry band of leftest in the forum are always accusing the POTUS of treason and clouting with the Russians! "just saying"
Hotrod511 is offline   Quote
Old 03-08-2019, 06:34 PM   #8
oeb11
Valued Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 31, 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 23,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yssup Rider View Post
So what was the point of posting that oeb11?

What is the contention for debate?

Are you defending Manafort?

Is he a victim of a witch hunt?

Methinks you doth protest too much.

The term Treason is used injudiciously in this forum, IMHO
If someOne had bothered to read the post, someOne would have understood the reason for the in-depth post.

So Sorry if it exceeded anyOne's ability to comprehend the "thrust of the post".

Please read my post on the Manafort thread about his sentence.
He is a Felon.

Ah - someOne read Shakespeare - but please , get it Right.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" is a line from the play Hamlet by William Shakespeare. It is spoken by Queen Gertrude in response to the insincere overacting of a character in the play within a play created by Prince Hamlet to prove his uncle's guilt in the murder of his father, the King of Denmark.
I am proud holder of a Y chromosome, Thank You .
oeb11 is offline   Quote
Old 03-08-2019, 09:33 PM   #9
The_Waco_Kid
AKA ULTRA MAGA Trump Gurl
 
The_Waco_Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 8, 2010
Location: The MAGA Zone
Posts: 37,398
Encounters: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yssup Rider View Post
So what was the point of posting that oeb11?

What is the contention for debate?

Are you defending Manafort?

Is he a victim of a witch hunt?

Methinks you doth protest too much.

Methinks you doth post too much.
The_Waco_Kid is offline   Quote
Old 03-08-2019, 10:02 PM   #10
Tiny
Lifetime Premium Access
 
Join Date: Mar 4, 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,001
Encounters: 2
Default

This treason and collusion thing is making a mountain out of a molehill. It's bull shit. To my friends on the left, do you think the CIA hasn't swayed elections? Historically we're as bad as the Soviets or the Russians, except for Stalin's regime. Arguably the millions that died in the Congo would't have if we hadn't gotten Patrice Lumumba killed and replaced by our man Mobutu. Then there was Sukarno in Indonesia, Diem in Vietnam, and more Latin American strongmen and leftists than you can shake a stick at.

Putin was pissed off at Secretary of State Clinton for egging on Russian protesters pissed off about the 2011 Russian election. So he authorized releasing her Emails and planting stories in social media. Big deal. This is nothing, absolutely nothing compared to some of the things our government has done in the past.
Tiny is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2019, 10:49 AM   #11
oeb11
Valued Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 31, 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 23,345
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid View Post
Methinks you doth post too much.

And think not enough.
Thank you - TWK!
oeb11 is offline   Quote
Old 03-09-2019, 10:52 AM   #12
oeb11
Valued Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 31, 2009
Location: dallas
Posts: 23,345
Default

Tiny - You bring a good point.

Thread started to show the mis-use of the word "treason"


US interventionism in the past is condemnable. We should not have done so.
Including that stupid, War in Viet Nam - based on McNamara convincing LBJ of the "dominos falling" philosophy.

Socialist regimes inevitably follow the Venezuela route and implode.

It is a good warning against military adventurism in Venezuela.
oeb11 is offline   Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 09:47 AM   #13
rexdutchman
Valued Poster
 
rexdutchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1, 2013
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 12,555
Encounters: 22
Default

Socialist regimes inevitably follow the Venezuela route and implode.

It is a good warning against military adventurism in Venezuela
rexdutchman is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


AMPReviews.net
Find Ladies
Hot Women

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright © 2009 - 2016, ECCIE Worldwide, All Rights Reserved