Another Mass Shooting In Las Vegas

[suiram77]

Originally Posted by old_hippie

I have a couple of issues with your comments here. The first is the statement about preventing ALL mass shootings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that if we can't prevent ALL shootings then we shouldn't do anything. I hear this argument a lot. I just don't understand it. Do we apply this standard to all our laws? If we did then we would have very few laws. I'm hard pressed to think of a single law that would prevent all occurrences of a particular offense.

The second issue I have is your statement about not being able to do anything to our Constitution. If you mean that literally, then that is wrong. That's what Article 5 is for. If you meant to say that it's hard to change the constitution, then I would agree. It is VERY hard. As it should be.

To your first question that’s exactly what I’m saying it is in possible to prevent any mass shootings because this is the land of the free on steroids. Can they prevent prostitution from happening? Absolutely not because no one have no control of my dick and where it goes and what I do with my money.

To your second question yes that’s what I meant, we shouldn’t touch the constitution at all no matter what the fuck happens. It’s to late let whatever that’s going to happen happens only God has control over what happens in this world and what don’t happen period. Prevention in my opinion only works when you can control the issue that you are speaking of. No one can stop me right now as I type this on a sex site from getting up in the morning and driving to the gym and killing everyone in there for whatever reason.

Now if you can tell me how you or the government could stop me or anyone from doing that in 10 hours with out evening knowing where I am and what gym, then the government would be the greatest ever in intelligence and must text back and forth with God. God is the only one that knows exactly what’s going to happen tomorrow in every city town and country period. Unless our government and law enforcement can play God then prevention is pointless and will never happen.

[DentBick]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Now-- before I say this.. let me say that I have no problem with gun ownership...

But as to the argument of "if they are illegal, then he would have just gotten them illegally". Why are there few if any reports of mass shootings in places where guns aren't legal? Hasn't been a mass shooting in Australia since the one that prompted the gun banning. When was the last mass shooting in Sweden? London? For a civilized, first world nation, we certainly seem to have excessive numbers of mass shootings compared to other first world nations. Really, compared to many developing (and often violent) nations.

This ^^^ was your first post here. This ^^^ is incorrect.

From a politifact article a few years back:

"Here are a just a few examples of mass shootings in other countries:

• On July 22, 2011, a total of 80 people were killed in Norway when Anders Behring Breivik, a political extremist, bombed a government building in Oslo and then went on a shooting rampage on the island of Utoya, just outside the city.

• On March 11, 2009, in Winnenden, Germany, a teenage gunman killed 15 people. The majority of the victims were children and teachers killed when the shooter opened fire in three classrooms in a local secondary school. The gunman shot two other people before killing himself after being cornered by the local police.

• On Sept. 23, 2008, in Kuahajoki, Finland, a gunman shot 10 people to death after opening fire on a classroom in the Kuahajoki School of Hospitality. After killing the students, the shooter burned the victims’ bodies."

Then you went into the Chicago argument regarding per capita data. Well, regarding advanced, western cultures:

"The U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000)."


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...nt-happen-oth/


There's a more detailed chart in that link.

"Finally, their database doesn’t include acts generally considered to be terrorism, such as the attack in Paris on the satirical magazineCharlie Hebdo.

"If these were included, we are likely to see something much different statistically as there have been a number of very high-profile terrorist attacks in Europe, some including the use of firearms, that are excluded from the current analysis,""




Then you posted later on,

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Nothing at all, nor did I say it would. However-- if following the laws we already have on the books prevent ONE of these events from happening, it is worth it.

Which laws?

[suiram77]

How many laws our county has in place, but ppl break them everyday, so where is the prevention that you speak of. For example is it against the law to run a red light? No it’s against the law to get caught running a red light, see the difference. You can do this with every law we have and the answer will be No and that’s because it’s only against the law if you are caught breaking the law. Do you know how many ppl thinks just like that everyday, I mean look at where we are having this conversation. It’s also against the law for every provider here in Dallas on eccie to offer sex for money, but you see we are all here aren’t we lol. This is my point about prevention, when the government shut the escorts ads down on back page what did the ladies do, Yep you got it move their ads to the dating column threads and now they have took completely over a fourm that use to be for meeting ppl for relationships smh lmao.

The law cannot stop prostitution ever an most of them have accepted that, so mass shootings are no different, they do not have the intelligence to know exactly what’s going to happen tomorrow and who it’s going to be. If that was the case, then 9/11 wouldn’t have happened, Las Vegas shooting wouldn’t have happened, the killing of the Dallas cops sure as hell wouldn’t have happened, they would have been right outside his house in mesquite already drawn on the house and him before he even open the door to leave buddy. I know it may sound bad to think we can’t do nothing, but the unfortunate truth is that we will never be able to eliminate mass shootings from this country or hell any damn crime. We are all on earth with pure evil, and if you read the Bible no matter what you believe in you will see that God said in revelations that he left Satan here to roam the earth and he is here to kill steal and destroy. Nobody can or will ever be able to stop him that’s Gods job and he will in due time.

[2short@desky]

Originally Posted by suiram77

How many laws our county has in place, but ppl break them everyday, so where is the prevention that you speak of. For example is it against the law to run a red light? No it’s against the law to get caught running a red light, see the difference. You can do this with every law we have and the answer will be No and that’s because it’s only against the law if you are caught breaking the law. Do you know how many ppl thinks just like that everyday, I mean look at where we are having this conversation. It’s also against the law for every provider here in Dallas on eccie to offer sex for money, but you see we are all here aren’t we lol. This is my point about prevention, when the government shut the escorts ads down on back page what did the ladies do, Yep you got it move their ads to the dating column threads and now they have took completely over a fourm that use to be for meeting ppl for relationships smh lmao.

The law cannot stop prostitution ever an most of them have accepted that, so mass shootings are no different, they do not have the intelligence to know exactly what’s going to happen tomorrow and who it’s going to be. If that was the case, then 9/11 wouldn’t have happened, Las Vegas shooting wouldn’t have happened, the killing of the Dallas cops sure as hell wouldn’t have happened, they would have been right outside his house in mesquite already drawn on the house and him before he even open the door to leave buddy. I know it may sound bad to think we can’t do nothing, but the unfortunate truth is that we will never be able to eliminate mass shootings from this country or hell any damn crime. We are all on earth with pure evil, and if you read the Bible no matter what you believe in you will see that God said in revelations that he left Satan here to roam the earth and he is here to kill steal and destroy. Nobody can or will ever be able to stop him that’s Gods job and he will in due time.

Very good Sir. I'm proud of you

[rexdutchman]

The real issue is FREEDOM, not guns or the 2nd amendment . If the 2A is eviscerated the Bill of Rights will also be impossibly damaged. The writers came from places that the elite class ran all and you worked for them you had no rights ( even to write this, just think 1A) if they didn't like you off with your head, they took your property wife kids etc etc. The Bill of Rights was put in place to stop this type of behavior for ALL, not just the elites ( Just my opinion )

[suiram77]

Originally Posted by rexdutchman

The real issue is FREEDOM, not guns or the 2nd amendment . If the 2A is eviscerated the Bill of Rights will also be impossibly damaged. The writers came from places that the elite class ran all and you worked for them you had no rights ( even to write this, just think 1A) if they didn't like you off with your head, they took your property wife kids etc etc. The Bill of Rights was put in place to stop this type of behavior for ALL, not just the elites ( Just my opinion )

Absolutely Rex amen brother. It’s our Freedom all day long.

[old_hippie]

Originally Posted by suiram77

To your first question that’s exactly what I’m saying it is in possible to prevent any mass shootings because this is the land of the free on steroids. Can they prevent prostitution from happening? Absolutely not because no one have no control of my dick and where it goes and what I do with my money.

To your second question yes that’s what I meant, we shouldn’t touch the constitution at all no matter what the fuck happens. It’s to late let whatever that’s going to happen happens only God has control over what happens in this world and what don’t happen period. Prevention in my opinion only works when you can control the issue that you are speaking of. No one can stop me right now as I type this on a sex site from getting up in the morning and driving to the gym and killing everyone in there for whatever reason.

Now if you can tell me how you or the government could stop me or anyone from doing that in 10 hours with out evening knowing where I am and what gym, then the government would be the greatest ever in intelligence and must text back and forth with God. God is the only one that knows exactly what’s going to happen tomorrow in every city town and country period. Unless our government and law enforcement can play God then prevention is pointless and will never happen.

You're confusing freedom with the ability to break the law. Freedom is generally considered to be what you can do legally. By your definition the people of North Korea has just as much freedom as we do. They also have the ability to break their laws if they chose. Is that really freedom?

I disagree with never changing the constitution. Again, that's why the drafters included Article 5. It gave us the mechanism to make changes. I think that is a good thing. They also set a high hurdle to clear before any changes can be made. I think this is also a good thing.

So you really are saying that if a law doesn't prevent all occurrences then we shouldn't have that law? Hmmm....well, you are free to believe what you want to believe. That is a freedom we have. But I disagree. I think the rule of law and a fair justice system is integral to a civil society. Again, what is the point of having any laws at all?

[suiram77]

Originally Posted by old_hippie

You're confusing freedom with the ability to break the law. Freedom is generally considered to be what you can do legally. By your definition the people of North Korea has just as much freedom as we do. They also have the ability to break their laws if they chose. Is that really freedom?

I disagree with never changing the constitution. Again, that's why the drafters included Article 5. It gave us the mechanism to make changes. I think that is a good thing. They also set a high hurdle to clear before any changes can be made. I think this is also a good thing.

So you really are saying that if a law doesn't prevent all occurrences then we shouldn't have that law? Hmmm....well, you are free to believe what you want to believe. That is a freedom we have. But I disagree. I think the rule of law and a fair justice system is integral to a civil society. Again, what is the point of having any laws at all?

Hippie we will just have to agree to disagree, but to me buddy freedom is being ale to do anything you want to do rather it’s legal or not. For another example lol, marijuana is still illegal in most states, but snoop dogg and a lot of other people in the country still smoke it and to me that’s because they have the freedom to. Other countries are ran with some form of a dictator and no freedom to do what they want to do. I know it may appear like that is Donald Trump plans for this country, but NOPE, that will never happen here and why FREEDOM buddy. His ass has either 3 or 7 years left and he is gone bye bye lol.

[old_hippie]

Originally Posted by suiram77

How many laws our county has in place, but ppl break them everyday, so where is the prevention that you speak of. For example is it against the law to run a red light? No it’s against the law to get caught running a red light, see the difference. You can do this with every law we have and the answer will be No and that’s because it’s only against the law if you are caught breaking the law. Do you know how many ppl thinks just like that everyday, I mean look at where we are having this conversation. It’s also against the law for every provider here in Dallas on eccie to offer sex for money, but you see we are all here aren’t we lol. This is my point about prevention, when the government shut the escorts ads down on back page what did the ladies do, Yep you got it move their ads to the dating column threads and now they have took completely over a fourm that use to be for meeting ppl for relationships smh lmao.

The law cannot stop prostitution ever an most of them have accepted that, so mass shootings are no different, they do not have the intelligence to know exactly what’s going to happen tomorrow and who it’s going to be. If that was the case, then 9/11 wouldn’t have happened, Las Vegas shooting wouldn’t have happened, the killing of the Dallas cops sure as hell wouldn’t have happened, they would have been right outside his house in mesquite already drawn on the house and him before he even open the door to leave buddy. I know it may sound bad to think we can’t do nothing, but the unfortunate truth is that we will never be able to eliminate mass shootings from this country or hell any damn crime. We are all on earth with pure evil, and if you read the Bible no matter what you believe in you will see that God said in revelations that he left Satan here to roam the earth and he is here to kill steal and destroy. Nobody can or will ever be able to stop him that’s Gods job and he will in due time.

Yes, you are breaking the law if you run a red light. You just won't be punished for it you don't get caught. See the difference?

The best prevention is to increase the probability of getting caught. And to a lesser extent, the severity of the punishment. To use your example, if red light cameras were installed on every intersection that has a traffic light and it is made known to the public that a $500 fine will be imposed for every infraction, what do you think will happen to the number of people running red lights?

Of course we wouldn't do that because of the cost for a relatively minor infraction. We would want our law enforcement to spend their limited time and resources on more serious crimes like mass shootings. So you and everyone else is asking what can be done about it. That's the $64,000 question isn't it. And I'll be the first to say I don't have the answer. But I do think it has to be an holistic approach with background checks, addressing the mental health issues and so on.

Will any solution prevent all mass shootings? Of course not. That I agree with you. But does that mean we throw up our hands and not even try? And that I disagree with you. I think we should try. You said so yourself that saving even one person from being shot and killed would be a good thing. As with most things in life, if you don't try you have zero chance of success.

[old_hippie]

Originally Posted by suiram77

Hippie we will just have to agree to disagree, but to me buddy freedom is being ale to do anything you want to do rather it’s legal or not. For another example lol, marijuana is still illegal in most states, but snoop dogg and a lot of other people in the country still smoke it and to me that’s because they have the freedom to. Other countries are ran with some form of a dictator and no freedom to do what they want to do. I know it may appear like that is Donald Trump plans for this country, but NOPE, that will never happen here and why FREEDOM buddy. His ass has either 3 or 7 years left and he is gone bye bye lol.

Absolutely. That's one of the things that make America great isn't it? The free exchange of ideas and civil debate of differing views. And the ability to agree to disagree. I enjoyed our little exchange here.
Good luck to you buddy.

[suiram77]

Originally Posted by old_hippie

Absolutely. That's one of the things that make America great isn't it? The free exchange of ideas and civil debate of differing views. And the ability to agree to disagree. I enjoyed our little exchange here.
Good luck to you buddy.

Cool hippie and I agree as well, now if we all can just do this our world would be so much better. I do want to say that I do agree with you on your red light analogy, because I know for a fact that if the ticket is $500 my ass would start stoping lol. I’m not sure if you knew this or not, but unfortunately even with the cameras and higher fines the law still states that the ticket/Fine will always go to the car register owner. This is how it is now, but of course new laws can change that. If you let someone else drive your car then they don’t have to care about running the light or not, because they know the Fine is only going to the register owner and not them.

That would be a whole other problem for the states to deal with, but I was still just showing you how both of our points is still affective.

[rexdutchman]

Note : North Korea is NOT free , State run TV, limit on kids no guns etc , internet not free to post.
We all have the right to opinions , If you don't want a gun don't own one, if you don't want a red truck don't own one . The red light camera tickets Violation on 5 amendment ( dam bill of rights again) if you fight you will always win. ( if u have time money ) See were I'm going Freedom .

[grean]

Originally Posted by old_hippie

You're confusing freedom with the ability to break the law. Freedom is generally considered to be what you can do legally. By your definition the people of North Korea has just as much freedom as we do. They also have the ability to break their laws if they chose. Is that really freedom?

I disagree with never changing the constitution. Again, that's why the drafters included Article 5. It gave us the mechanism to make changes. I think that is a good thing. They also set a high hurdle to clear before any changes can be made. I think this is also a good thing.

So you really are saying that if a law doesn't prevent all occurrences then we shouldn't have that law? Hmmm....well, you are free to believe what you want to believe. That is a freedom we have. But I disagree. I think the rule of law and a fair justice system is integral to a civil society. Again, what is the point of having any laws at all?

Well let's hold off on comparing a nation with no regard to human rights or freedoms to the United States.

North Korean high school student athetes are punished if the leaders feel disrespected by the students. Public schools in the US can't do that because of our constitution.

Oh...wait. well, shit. A school in Texas did do that exact thing. WTF?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/01/us/high-school-football-kicked-off-protest/index.html

Nevermind. Carry on.

[old_hippie]

Originally Posted by rexdutchman

Note : North Korea is NOT free , State run TV, limit on kids no guns etc , internet not free to post.
We all have the right to opinions , If you don't want a gun don't own one, if you don't want a red truck don't own one . The red light camera tickets Violation on 5 amendment ( dam bill of rights again) if you fight you will always win. ( if u have time money ) See were I'm going Freedom .

To be clear, I did not say that North Korea was free. If you reread my post you will see that I was saying the opposite.

Also, I am not a fan of red light cameras. There is a growing effort in our state legislature to ban its use and I hope they do. I agree that if you do get one of these tickets to fight it in court. It will most likely be dismissed. But I don't see how it violates Amendment 5 of the Bill of Rights.

[old_hippie]

Originally Posted by grean

Well let's hold off on comparing a nation with no regard to human rights or freedoms to the United States.

North Korean high school student athetes are punished if the leaders feel disrespected by the students. Public schools in the US can't do that because of our constitution.

Oh...wait. well, shit. A school in Texas did do that exact thing. WTF?

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/01/us/hig...est/index.html

Nevermind. Carry on.

I see what you did there.