Another Mass Shooting In Las Vegas

[Crock]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Why are there few if any reports of mass shootings in places where guns aren't legal?

Great question. I would like to blame media bias on this topic, but, really, American media doesn't report much about events outside the USA.

Hasn't been a mass shooting in Australia since the one that prompted the gun banning. When was the last mass shooting in Sweden? London? For a civilized, first world nation, we certainly seem to have excessive numbers of mass shootings compared to other first world nations. Really, compared to many developing (and often violent) nations.

I'm sorry, but those are ridiculous assertions.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4...europe-in-2016
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...las-vegas.html
https://thejacknews.com/law/gun-righ...s-than-europe/
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/co...us-and-europe/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...nt-happen-oth/

[rexdutchman]

My bad Switzerland , Point is still the same the Liberal Media only reports of the liberal side of real issues , which are not based in fact.

[grean]

Originally Posted by Crock

Great question. I would like to blame media bias on this topic, but, really, American media doesn't report much about events outside the USA.


I'm sorry, but those are ridiculous assertions.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/4...europe-in-2016
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...las-vegas.html
https://thejacknews.com/law/gun-righ...s-than-europe/
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/co...us-and-europe/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...nt-happen-oth/

The last link from politifact will be quote illuminating to anyone who believes that it doesn't happen in other countrties.

Our population dwarfs all the other countries so as far as frequency is concerned.....


The only country with a smaller percentage based on population is China.

Anybody wanna have America do what China does to keep that number down?

[grean]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

I think you missed the first sentence-- the whole "I'm not against gun ownership" part. Because I'm not. I own guns and I've served in the military.

I'm only saying-- that a lot of arguments used by BOTH sides don't hold water.

See I knew there was a reason I stand at attention when I see your pics!


The lefts argument that restrictions on types of guns, magazine capacity, "assault" rifles (cuz there is no such thing) will reduce gun crime, is as ridiculous as the rights argument that gun control only means using both hands and that any other is a restriction and is an infringement on 2A.

[2short@desky]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

I think you missed the first sentence-- the whole "I'm not against gun ownership" part. Because I'm not. I own guns and I've served in the military.

I'm only saying-- that a lot of arguments used by BOTH sides don't hold water.

I didn't miss it, and I understand your position perfectly...I think? I thought I gave some reasonable rationale why generally the leftist view doesn't work say per Australia or England. It may for the short term, but eventually power will corrupt, and situations such as Iran and Venezuela will manifest themselves.

[Grace Preston]

The Chicago argument also falls under that whole "per capita" clause....

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/10/chi...r-capita-rate/

Lotta cities are worse per capita both for homicides and for shootings where no death occurs-- including the "quiet, nice city" I happen to live in now.

The problem with the gun control movement is that Pandora's Box was opened long ago. Good luck getting that genie back in the bottle. I personally would at least like to see current laws enforced-- including having a way for there to be an exception to HIPPA when it comes to applying to own a gun. All a person has to do to get a gun if they have a mental health record but no convictions.. is lie. They can't check it... rights to privacy block that. I have an ex with a whole cache of weapons despite mental health diagnoses and more than one stay in an inpatient facility.

[grean]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

The Chicago argument also falls under that whole "per capita" clause....

https://www.thetrace.org/2016/10/chi...r-capita-rate/

Lotta cities are worse per capita both for homicides and for shootings where no death occurs-- including the "quiet, nice city" I happen to live in now.

The problem with the gun control movement is that Pandora's Box was opened long ago. Good luck getting that genie back in the bottle. I personally would at least like to see current laws enforced-- including having a way for there to be an exception to HIPPA when it comes to applying to own a gun. All a person has to do to get a gun if they have a mental health record but no convictions.. is lie. They can't check it... rights to privacy block that. I have an ex with a whole cache of weapons despite mental health diagnoses and more than one stay in an inpatient facility.

Even if Vegas Nut was stopped through legal means, how would we prevent him from obtaining those gus illegally?

How would any of that prevented Vegas?

Cmon, haven't we all seen BSC enough here to know better than to think we can stop it? And here it's just crazy hookers trying to hustle down cash. The BSC of the murderous variety is all that much harder to detect let alone stop.

Too tired to link, but there have been a few cases were bad guys with guns were stopped by good guys with guns. In those cases the good guys were not cops.

[Grace Preston]

Nothing at all, nor did I say it would. However-- if following the laws we already have on the books prevent ONE of these events from happening, it is worth it.

You cannot prevent bad guys from getting guns in a country where there are more guns than people-- to think otherwise is a fools mission. You can't prevent guys from picking up a hooker. You can't prevent people from buying drugs. Does that mean we don't enforce the laws that are on the books? Banning guns isn't the answer. Banning clips, magazines, etc. isn't the answer. But enforcing the laws that are already out there rather than letting things slide... should be a no-brainer.

[grean]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Nothing at all, nor did I say it would. However-- if following the laws we already have on the books prevent ONE of these events from happening, it is worth it.

You cannot prevent bad guys from getting guns in a country where there are more guns than people-- to think otherwise is a fools mission. You can't prevent guys from picking up a hooker. You can't prevent people from buying drugs. Does that mean we don't enforce the laws that are on the books? Banning guns isn't the answer. Banning clips, magazines, etc. isn't the answer. But enforcing the laws that are already out there rather than letting things slide... should be a no-brainer.

I don't know where I would buy illegal guns or other illegal goods and services because I don't want them.

However, I do know where to go to pay for pussy, which is also illegal, because I do want it. I knew it could be paid for, so I just figured out how. Was it as easy as it would have been if the was a pussy retailing giant sending me a weekly ad? No, it cam be a bit of a hassle, but I still can get it anytime I want it. Because of the hassle, I also do my best to get the most bang for my buck.

See my point?

[Grace Preston]

I'm not sure what your point is if our point isn't the same one.... just sayin'... we appear to have the same point.

[old_hippie]

Originally Posted by rexdutchman

My bad Switzerland , Point is still the same the Liberal Media only reports of the liberal side of real issues , which are not based in fact.

Well, I'm sure you get your news from sources that give you only the facts. Like Switzerland requiring gun ownership and that Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the nation.

[suiram77]

Originally Posted by Grace Preston

Nothing at all, nor did I say it would. However-- if following the laws we already have on the books prevent ONE of these events from happening, it is worth it.

You cannot prevent bad guys from getting guns in a country where there are more guns than people-- to think otherwise is a fools mission. You can't prevent guys from picking up a hooker. You can't prevent people from buying drugs. Does that mean we don't enforce the laws that are on the books? Banning guns isn't the answer. Banning clips, magazines, etc. isn't the answer. But enforcing the laws that are already out there rather than letting things slide... should be a no-brainer.

Really, seriously, I completely disagree with you on the enforcing the laws we already have in place. That want work either, bottom line is these mass shootings will still happen no matter what laws you enforce. Like I already stated in this thread is we are a free, free country, so that is the main reason why we will never see any mass shootings end. Most ppl will only just push back on any enforcement on our rights to have weapons.

You said isn’t preventing one mass shootings a good thing and I will say sure, but the question is how do we prevent all mass shootings not just one. Even if they pass a law where assault rifles are illegal now, It’s not going to prevent any mass shootings from happening again. The government can’t go around and say we are here to collect your assault rifles at every persons home that has one. One we don’t have the man power to do that and Two no one will ever give up there assault weapons if they own any, they all will hide them and say, oh I sold mine, I gave it away, I turned it in to the police station lol.

I know that’s what I would do and there would be others that would do the exact same thing. It’s to late to have any type of gun control in this country now, I mean first it’s our 2nd amendment and we can’t do nothing to our constitution, and secondly most people will never turn over there assault rifles, even if the government said they will pay more money for them that the consumer paid for them and it still want work. Just like the oldest profession prostitution is never going any where, neither is mass shootings. Do we just accept it and just expect it to happen and move on? Well I will answer that by asking do the government/Law enforcement have to just accept the fact that it will always be prostitution and drug dealers? Absolutely 100 trillion percent.

[DentBick]

Grace, the amount of lives guns SAVE far outweighs the "If it saves one life it's worth it" emotional plea of gun control activists.

Read the just facts link I posted earlier about the crimes that are deterred because the intended victim had a firearm. Guns save far more lives than they take.

[Grace Preston]

Omg-- YES I AM AWARE. Sheesh.. how many times must I state that I am in SUPPORT of gun rights??!? I'm saying, that if actually enforcing the laws we currently have could prevent one of these incidents, then it would be worth it. I am not saying to make new laws, to ban anything not already banned, etc. etc. etc. I'm saying that current enforcement of the laws already accepted and on the books is lax in many ways and could be vastly improved. Loopholes abound... and quite often weapons charges are the first ones dropped when a criminal act occurs.

I own guns. I have a CHL. I'm one hell of a shot. This is part of the problem overall in the "gun debate". Nobody listens to what anyone else is saying.

[old_hippie]

Originally Posted by suiram77

Really, seriously, I completely disagree with you on the enforcing the laws we already have in place. That want work either, bottom line is these mass shootings will still happen no matter what laws you enforce. Like I already stated in this thread is we are a free, free country, so that is the main reason why we will never see any mass shootings end. Most ppl will only just push back on any enforcement on our rights to have weapons.

You said isn’t preventing one mass shootings a good thing and I will say sure, but the question is how do we prevent all mass shootings not just one. Even if they pass a law where assault rifles are illegal now, It’s not going to prevent any mass shootings from happening again. The government can’t go around and say we are here to collect your assault rifles at every persons home that has one. One we don’t have the man power to do that and Two no one will ever give up there assault weapons if they own any, they all will hide them and say, oh I sold mine, I gave it away, I turned it in to the police station lol.

I know that’s what I would do and there would be others that would do the exact same thing. It’s to late to have any type of gun control in this country now, I mean first it’s our 2nd amendment and we can’t do nothing to our constitution, and secondly most people will never turn over there assault rifles, even if the government said they will pay more money for them that the consumer paid for them and it still want work. Just like the oldest profession prostitution is never going any where, neither is mass shootings. Do we just accept it and just expect it to happen and move on? Well I will answer that by asking do the government/Law enforcement have to just accept the fact that it will always be prostitution and drug dealers? Absolutely 100 trillion percent.

I have a couple of issues with your comments here. The first is the statement about preventing ALL mass shootings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that if we can't prevent ALL shootings then we shouldn't do anything. I hear this argument a lot. I just don't understand it. Do we apply this standard to all our laws? If we did then we would have very few laws. I'm hard pressed to think of a single law that would prevent all occurrences of a particular offense.

The second issue I have is your statement about not being able to do anything to our Constitution. If you mean that literally, then that is wrong. That's what Article 5 is for. If you meant to say that it's hard to change the constitution, then I would agree. It is VERY hard. As it should be.