Indian land claim paradox

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

You can't figure it out? The Indians respected the land, they lived off of it. Early settlers kicked them off of it and destroyed what they cherished. For the American Indian nothing has been the same since.


Jim

And they fought wars among each other, enslaved each other, and stole territory from each other.

The idea of "the Noble Red Man" is a myth created by a segment of society that was ignorant of the facts, and by Hollywood.

The Native Americans were were plagued by the same dark side of their human nature as the White Europeans who showed up and conguered them.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The Native Americans should blame themselves for smallpox infected blankets? For broken treaties? For sequestering on crappy land called reservations?

The story about Amherst and the infected blankets has not held up to historical scrutiny. The timeline has been proven demonstrably wrong, and the two individuals who purportedly received the blankets did not contract smallpox and die. And both parties were guilty of "treaty violations". The Great Sioux Uprising of 1862 was the consequence of a blatant act of red on white murder.

Originally Posted by Jackie S

And they fought wars among each other, enslaved each other, and stole territory from each other.

The idea of "the Noble Red Man" is a myth created by a segment of society that was ignorant of the facts, and by Hollywood.

The Native Americans were were plagued by the same dark side of their human nature as the White Europeans who showed and conguered them.

+1

The Erie were destroyed by their neighboring tribes, and the Westo were notorious for their slave trade.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

And they fought wars among each other, enslaved each other, and stole territory from each other.

The idea of "the Noble Red Man" is a myth created by a segment of society that was ignorant of the facts, and by Hollywood.

The Native Americans were were plagued by the same dark side of their human nature as the White Europeans who showed up and conguered them.

Mankind has always had wars amongst each other. That's nothing new.


Jim

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

And they fought wars among each other, enslaved each other, and stole territory from each other.

The idea of "the Noble Red Man" is a myth created by a segment of society that was ignorant of the facts, and by Hollywood.

The Native Americans were were plagued by the same dark side of their human nature as the White Europeans who showed up and conguered them.

Who has ever said the Indians weren't subject to human nature? And because they acted like everyone else, they deserved to have their land taken from them? You are making excuses for the white man.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

The story about Amherst and the infected blankets has not held up to historical scrutiny. The timeline has been proven demonstrably wrong, and the two individuals who purportedly received the blankets did not contract smallpox and die. And both parties were guilty of "treaty violations". The Great Sioux Uprising of 1862 was the consequence of a blatant act of red on white murder.




+1

The Erie were destroyed by their neighboring tribes, and the Westo were notorious for their slave trade.

So what? You are always mentioning slavery as a way of not having to pass judgement on white slavery. They were human beings, and suffered from human nature, just like we all do. It was no reason to justify what happened to them.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

The Indians wouldn't want this land back after what we've done to it.


Jim

[DSK]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

Who has ever said the Indians weren't subject to human nature? And because they acted like everyone else, they deserved to have their land taken from them? You are making excuses for the white man.

Half breed Mexicans will have to give up their land that was stolen here in the United States, too. Don't give me that shit about the land belonging to Mexico - Santa Ana was just a European descended aristocrat, too.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by WTF

Hope those houses you sold have defensible titles.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

The Native Americans should blame themselves for smallpox infected blankets? For broken treaties? For sequestering on crappy land called reservations?

No, they do not have to do so.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

So what? You are always mentioning slavery as a way of not having to pass judgement on white slavery. They were human beings, and suffered from human nature, just like we all do. It was no reason to justify what happened to them.

Per H.G. Wells, one of your preeminent socialist forebears, "The world is a world, not a charitable institution." That means, "Tough Shit!", you 2015 DOTY and "#Grubered", freelance faggot, Odumbo Minion from Arkansas; no one promised you -- or anybody else -- a fuckin' rose garden.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by Mr MojoRisin

You can't figure it out? The Indians respected the land, they lived off of it. Early settlers kicked them off of it and destroyed what they cherished. For the American Indian nothing has been the same since.


Jim

That is true, but not the complete story. Look at what has been done to reintroduce free roaming bison beards in the great planes, undoing what excessive cattle braising has done. That is the largest scale but hardly the only example. It parallels a lot of work done by indigenous agrarians in southern Africa. Much of what has been changed can be unchanged.

But it is certainly not your place to tell them that they should quit caring about the lands that were stolen from them.

[i'va biggen]

Bottom line is. If you ain't white fuck you!!!

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

Who has ever said the Indians weren't subject to human nature? And because they acted like everyone else, they deserved to have their land taken from them? You are making excuses for the white man.

Yes I am. In fact, holding the White Man to exactly the same standard as every other variation of human when they decided to take something from someone else, whether that be The Zulus in Africa, the Mongols in Asia, the Chinese in Asia, the Polynesians in the Pacific, or any other sub division of human kind that at one time in their History have decided to subjugate another people.

[Mr MojoRisin]

Originally Posted by Old-T

That is true, but not the complete story. Look at what has been done to reintroduce free roaming bison beards in the great planes, undoing what excessive cattle braising has done. That is the largest scale but hardly the only example. It parallels a lot of work done by indigenous agrarians in southern Africa. Much of what has been changed can be unchanged.

But it is certainly not your place to tell them that they should quit caring about the lands that were stolen from them.

I am not saying they should stop caring. I am just saying they wouldn't want it back because the land doesn't represent them as it once did.


Jim

[CuteOldGuy]

The Native Americans were trying to defend their land. The white Europeans were the aggressors. They were lured into treaties, and then slaughtered, and the land taken back. Funny how the treaties were ignored when gold was discovered. Yes, land is acquired by conquest, but our treatment of Native Americans during that conquest was horrific, and comparable to the tactics used by ISIS today. We could have reached peace with the Native Americans, but we broke the treaties. We lied. Because "God" wanted the white folk to have the continent. Remember Manifest Destiny?

You just can't trust religionists, or government - EVER!