We're Going back in

[WTF]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

Kurd's have several religions of which two are Judaism and Christianity.

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Which is one reason the Israelis were able to keep things calm in their sector of Iraq and the area "opened for business" early on after the 2003 "re-invasion."

In case "someone" forgot:

So you think Judaism and Christianity is the reason that the Kurds welcomed us in 2003. The Kurds that are mostly Muslim. The no fly over zone had nothing to do with it?

Jesus...or better yet, Black Jesus, wtf is wrong with you? Are you Baghdad's Bobs twin brother? trying to spin everything anti-Obama.

Please give a link to support your claim that : Judaism and Christianity.... Which is one reason the Israelis were able to keep things calm in their sector of Iraq and the area "opened for business" early on after the 2003 "re-invasion."

[WTF]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

Kurd's have several religions of which two are Judaism and Christianity.

While true it is a distortion from the fact that the majority of Kurds are Muslim. Which was my factual point to the Lama's ignorance on the subject.




Islam

Main articles: Islam and Alevi

Today, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school.
There is also a minority of Kurds who are Shia Muslims, primarily living in the Ilam and Kermanshah provinces of Iran, Central and south eastern Iraq (Fayli Kurds)
Mystical practices and participation in Sufi orders are also widespread among Kurds.[215]

Judaism
Judaism is still practised in very small numbers across Kurdistan


Christianity

Main article: Kurdish Christians

Although historically there have been various accounts of Kurdish Christians, most often these were in the form of individuals, and not as communities.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by WTF

So you think Judaism and Christianity is the reason that the Kurds welcomed us in 2003.

"us" ... you mean the United States? Or does "us" mean you and the other "boys" at the Barnes and Noble.

You find your own links, lazy ass.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by WTF

Although historically there have been various accounts of Kurdish Christians, most often these were in the form of individuals, and not as communities.

Of course.

During certain periods of U.S. history Jews lived "quietly" in predominately German communities. Were some Jewish? Yes. Were some of German descent Jewish? Yes.

So what? The Lama was correct.

[JD Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by Thibodaux

Yep... you will buy it too. What is worse about Oil Companies fighting wars in the name of money, than radical theologies fighting wars in the name of their chosen faiths? Are they fighting and slaughtering for a more righteous cause or purpose?

As I said earlier... I have no fighting dog in the entire Middle East. I do not care who kills who over there... nor do I care for what reason. They have been doing a fine job for thousands of years, without our assistance or Empirical Good Will. Fuck 'Em !!

Can anyone define a realistic "success" in the Mid East as a result of American intervention or diplomacy? Really? Cum on... Really?

I can tell you this, with complete confidence, we will see no success under Obama's regime. His idea of success is unlike anything that we have seen before. He is either an enemy agent working against the goals of the US or he is mentally unbalanced and believes what he is saying.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Thibodaux

Can anyone define a realistic "success" in the Mid East as a result of American intervention or diplomacy? Really? Cum on... Really?

How about stopping ISIS from gaining access to revenue it can use to finance all kinds of terrorist activities all over the world... If they take over Iraq they would get their hands on $80-90 billion a year in oil revenues at current production levels. Or are you ok with that? Really? Cum on... Really?

[I B Hankering]

It's about the right to engage in trade, and not just about oil. And the U.S. has been involved 'over there' since the U.S. became a nation.



USS Enterprise fighting the Tripolitan polacca Tripoli

[Thibodaux]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I can tell you this, with complete confidence, we will see no success under Obama's regime. His idea of success is unlike anything that we have seen before. He is either an enemy agent working against the goals of the US or he is mentally unbalanced and believes what he is saying.

I can easily agree with that point... but I believe its a combination of that, plus the fact that he is deep water, way over his head, and lost... confused , clueless, and drowning in complication he never realized as a Chicago Community Organizer. Checkout the legacy he left behind, there!

Originally Posted by lustylad

How about stopping ISIS from gaininyg access to revenue it can use to finance all kinds of terrorist activities all over the world... If they take over Iraq they would get their hands on $80-90 billion a year in oil revenues at current production levels. Or are you ok with that? Really? Cum on... Really?

You are totally missing my point... I don't give a flying fuck about ISIS , Hamas , Muslim Brotherhood... Israel , Iraq (or what's left of it), or any other Middle Eastern Shithole bad boy wannabees! For the most part... its kinda like Major Metropolitan, Inner-City USA.... the vast majority of hoodlums are contained in a fairly well-defined area. An area I've visited, and don't give a dying rat's ass about! As long as the majority of their activities are contained in that region... we should leave them all to kill each other, as they have been doing for thousands of years before idiotic, asshole Americans dreamed that they could (or should) make a difference. If we had stayed out of their business in the first place, we wouldn't find ourselves where we are now... aimless and confused.

Until you have spent time amongst some of these tribal phucks, you will never get it!
Normal, rational processes do not have a place, there!

Like roaches... Nothing short of TOTAL obliteration will cure the problem. We as a so-called civilized nation, are not close to making that commitment. Its all or nothing! Anything less is a waste time, money, and American lives.

Of course, this is simply my opinion... I don't expect many to agree with me. I am fairly comfortable with that.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Thibodaux

....drowning in complication he never realized as a Chicago Community Organizer. Checkout the legacy he left behind, there!
....
For the most part... its kinda like Major Metropolitan, Inner-City USA.... the vast majority of hoodlums are contained in a fairly well-defined area.

Its all or nothing! Anything less is a waste time, money, and American lives.

It seems you have answered your concern about ... Our White House Jester believes that the hoodlums in Chicago stay on "their street" and don't ever get off "their block"! How's that been working out for the U.S.?

1990s[edit]
1993 - February 26 - World Trade Center bombing, 6 killed, 1,042 injured.
1993 - January 25 - Attack at CIA Headquarters in McLean, Virginia: 2 killed, 3 injured.
1995 - March 8 - Killing of two US Diplomats in Pakistan.
1995 - April 19 - Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, over 800 injured.
1996 - June 25 - Khobar Towers bombing: 19 American servicemen killed.
1998 - August 7 - US embassy bombings: U.S. Kenya Embassy blown up, 214 killed (including 12 Americans); U.S. Tanzania Embassy blown up, 11 killed.

21st Century[edit]

2000s[edit]
2000 - USS Cole attacked, 17 U.S. Navy sailors killed, 39 sailors injured.
2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks, 2,997 killed;
2002 - Reporter Daniel Pearl, kidnapped and beheaded in Karachi.
2002 - Nine people killed by bomb blast near US embassy in Lima - seen as attempt to disrupt forthcoming visit by President George W. Bush.
2002-2006 - Karachi consulate attacks: three separate attacks killed 18 people (including an American diplomat) and injured 87.
2002 - Two Marines shot, one killed in Kuwait.
2003 - Riyadh Compound Bombings kill 35, including 9 Americans.
2003 - Three American diplomats are killed by a roadside bomb targeting their convoy in Gaza. Palestine Resistance Committees, an umbrella organization has taken responsibility for the attack."[2]
2003–present - Damascus terrorist attacks: American interests in Syria targeted by Islamists.
2004 - Civilians Nick Berg, Jack Hensley, and Eugene Armstrong kidnapped and beheaded in Iraq.
2004 - Paul Marshall Johnson, Jr, civilian working in Saudi Arabia, kidnapped and beheaded; five other Americans die in attacks in Saudi Arabia in 2004.
2007 - American embassy attacked in Athens, Greece.
2008 - John Granville, US diplomat, assassinated in Khartoum, Sudan

2010s[edit]
2012 – US Embassy in Libya was attacked. The ambassador and three other Americans were killed.
2012 – Sikh temple in Wisconsin was attacked by a white supremacist. Six Americans were killed, not including the perpetrator, who committed suicide.
2013 – 2013 Boston Marathon bombings, 3 killed, 183 injured. April 15.
2014 – 2014 kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers, 3 teens kidnapped and murdered, Hamas suspected, including 1, Naftali Frenkel, an American citizen. June 12.

... #1 .... who said it was "contained" ...

..........the same guy who said our borders are secure?

#2 .. my vote is "all" ... (of those who terrorize others or the U.S.)

#3 ... oh, and I have "spent time amongst some of these tribal phucks" (sic) and some of the urban "phucks (sic) while listening to their philosophy and drinking their "bad" tea.

#4: ... whose "Normal, rational processes" does "not have a place, there?

Yours?

Are you judging the majority of them by the actions of a few?

[Thibodaux]

LL... are you committed to the total expense (I'm not talking, just $$$) it will take to effectively change history in the Middle East? Do you speak for All Americans in that regard?

Personally, I believe we have more important problems to pay attention to, here @ home. We haven't even been willing to make the correct, but difficult decisions here, yet. Who are you kidding by inferring that we can bring meaningful "change" to the Middle East? Not me!

Tell you what... I'll meet you halfway. Any crimes that are committed directly against the USA and/or its citizens... I will agree to a No Bullshit / All Out Retaliation... nothing less! How 'bout it?

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Thibodaux

LL... are you committed to the total expense (I'm not talking, just $$$) it will take to effectively change history in the Middle East?

Who are you kidding by inferring that we can bring meaningful "change" to the Middle East? Not me!

Tell you what... I'll meet you halfway. Any crimes that are committed directly against the USA and/or its citizens... I will agree to a No Bullshit / All Out Retaliation... nothing less! How 'bout it?

We can shape events there without sending hundreds of thousands of troops back in... ISIS is a big threat now and will become an even bigger threat if we do nothing. You are kidding yourself if you think we can sit back and wait until they commit crimes "directly against the USA and/or its citizens". That's a pre-9/11 mentality and ISIS is already much more dangerous than al queda was. If ever there was justification for pre-emptive action, this situation screams out for it. We should position overwhelming airpower in the Kurdish north and use it to create a "highway of death" each time those ISIS cockroaches set out anywhere in their Japanese mini-vans. That's the way to "contain" the fuckers.

.

[Thibodaux]

I suppose we should proceed as normal and skip the Constitutional budgeting process... right?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

"us" ... you mean the United States? Or does "us" mean you and the other "boys" at the Barnes and Noble.

.

It sure the fuck does not mean your chicken hawk ass. Just like in SS/Medicare, you like to spend others money and lives to ease your fear of Muslims!

Originally Posted by LexusLover

.

You find your own links, lazy ass.

Just try and find a link showing the majority of Kurds are Christians, just one link, get sailor boy JDCornhole to help you, he is good at sniffing out a link or three....

Originally Posted by Thibodaux

LL... are you committed to the total expense (I'm not talking, just $$$) it will take to effectively change history in the Middle East? Do you speak for All Americans in that regard? LL is committed to spending others money and lives to make him feel safe at night. He is not willing to commit a dime of his SS/Medicare money towards that though.

Personally, I believe we have more important problems to pay attention to, here @ home. We haven't even been willing to make the correct, but difficult decisions here, yet. Who are you kidding by inferring that we can bring meaningful "change" to the Middle East? Not me! Nor I. If you get right down to it 9/11 was not an effective military strike. Instead we over reacted and did exactly as Osama wanted us to do. which was to get bogged down in a lengthy and costly ME campaign. If you read his manifesto , he wanted the Muslims to rise up against their rulers like has happened in Egypt and the other ME's countries.

Tell you what... I'll meet you halfway. Any crimes that are committed directly against the USA and/or its citizens... I will agree to a No Bullshit / All Out Retaliation... nothing less! How 'bout it?

Let's just hope we invade the correct country should there be a next time.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Thibodaux

I suppose we should proceed as normal and skip the Constitutional budgeting process... right?

??? Where did I say anything about bypassing the Constitution? This does not require a huge amount of initial funding and the DoD has some emergency discretionary accounts. Part of Iraq's oil is produced in Kurdish controlled territory but the revenues go through the Maliki government in Baghdad right now. If the Kurds gain more sovereignty they will be happy to pay for our weaponry. If a bigger commitment is needed, Congress is likely to approve it. What is scary is how Obama just wants this problem to go away by itself so he is doing the minimum to deal with it. Remember a year ago when he punted the ball to Congress after Assad crossed his so-called "red line" in Syria? That's how he "leads" in a foreign policy crisis. My guess is Congress and the public will eventually be out in front of him on this and any other crisis requiring a military response for the remainder of his time in office. We will all have to buck up our pusillanimous Commander In Chief to make him do the right thing.

.

[JD Barleycorn]

I don't understand where the Constitution comes in on this. What this calls for is real consensus and understanding of world events by BOTH parties that will go in for the long hall. It will take about two generations to change anything in the Middle East or about 40 years. You have to raise an entire generation that understands and appreciates representative government without that crap of religion involved. Then you have to have another generation behind them hoping and demanding their opportunity to participate. It's more than money, it is our presence and guidance. Yes, it will take money but the payoff comes when we can leave the Middle East once and for all. How much will it cost over the next decade in blood and treasure if we keep having to return?

Back to the Constitution question, Bush went to the Congress for what amounted to a declaration of war against both Afghanistan AND Iraq. Obama is issuing threats and creating "red lines" on his own dime and that dime is pretty thin right now.