Clarification on what a TS wants to be called...

[harkontume]

[QUOTE=Mr Peabody;1055456576]Sorry I'ma gettin to this party late.

From a strictly logical analysis, this is a discussion of english grammar. For some reason the language did not evolve with a clearcut pronoun for beings who have the ability to change gender depending upon the circumstances.

This may be personal bias, but the pronoun "it" conveys the impression of a lack of gender for the object it is describing. Both sides in this thread do think there is a gender associated with the object (or noun), there is just no logically consistent pronoun for the object.

Well said PB. However, consider this.
When seeing a new puppy, or baby a normal question is this.
"Is it a boy or a girl?"
Is this instance the pronoun "it" is not an insult just a substitution when the gender is not known.

Contextually in this thread , the same grammatical dilemma occurs.

Of course to the PC police ,since only they are the arbiters' of words and their meaning, no word can be used which does not pass their scrutiny .
Feelings after all takes precedence over truth.

[Miss Valentina]

You're right, it's not an insult when "it" is proposed in this way.

Because in your example it is used in reference to the proposal of a question, not in the succinct naming of a person as an "it" where "it" needn't apply. The person in question has requested not to be called and "it" but rather the gender-determinate "she". To her, her gender is not in question.

Whether or not you wish to call a transgendered or transexual person an "it" is your own business, and not recognize someone's personal autonomy to gender identify. I'm not certain it has anything to do with the "truth".

I'm surprised that for all the jumping up and down about PC'ness, one's right to say what one wishes to say, to call things what they want to call them, vile Thought Policing, and hubris about self-determination and one' own sovereignty of mind (all very good points indeed ) consider one may have overlooked this person's own right to self sovereignty, governance and autonomy and to fight for the same respect others demand here.

Just a thought.

[Still Looking]

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Sorry I'ma gettin to this party late.

From a strictly logical analysis, this is a discussion of english grammar. For some reason the language did not evolve with a clearcut pronoun for beings who have the ability to change gender depending upon the circumstances.

This may be personal bias, but the pronoun "it" conveys the impression of a lack of gender for the object it is describing. Both sides in this thread do think there is a gender associated with the object (or noun), there is just no logically consistent pronoun for the object.

We are not going to create the universally accepted pronoun here, but could we consider a gender-neutral pronoun substitution instead?

For instance if we substitute "that fucker" for he or she, the noun being described still has a gender, it is just ambiguous.

This pronoun can equally be applied to Whispers in all the valid arguments which that fucker has brought up. I would even suggest we can capitalize THAT FUCKER when applying it to SL.

I see more language limitations occurring as being such as clones, chimeras, and cyber-hybrids come into existence, and other sexual practices such as necrophilia, polygamy, and bestiality become "socially acceptable" by the PC crowd.

Here is cartoon grammar lesson covering the bestiality issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu1ciVFbecw

A fun fact: Recent studies on fraternal twins has shown a surprising amount of tissue swapping can occur in the womb, for instance the female twin may have a significant amount of cells with Y-chromosomes.

Perhaps there is a grammar expert here who can objectively look beyond their political leanings to give a more scientific analysis.

-My .02

I'm OK with "that fucker!"

[Still Looking]

For conversation sake being "called" something and "being" something are TWO separate items.

If you want to be called a "he" or a "she" or "ET" because you scotch taped on an extra testicle (ET) who cares? Your here to be a male hooker and make money. Seems like there are guys out there that dig that sort of thing. (Mostly MODS that don't talk about it!) I'm not judging you. By all means do your thing. If I met you at a Social and was seated next to you I wouldn't run out of the building screaming. But I have the same rights as straight or gays and choose whom I'm with sexually. I also have the right to my opinions on what I refer to a man born a man who decides to change into being a woman. And if I choose to not frequent or participate sexually with that type of person that's my right. Men who choose to do this face many challenges and what I think, sure as hell shouldn't be one of them.

Carry on bitches! It's a lot easier to call you a bitch than a she. I wonder why?

[harkontume]

Originally Posted by Miss Valentina

You're right, it's not an insult when "it" is proposed in this way.

Because in your example it is used in reference to the proposal of a question, not in the succinct naming of a person as an "it" where "it" needn't apply.
thank you!
The person in question has requested not to be called and "it" but rather the gender-determinate "she". To her, her gender is not in question.
No he didn't ,, he requested not to be called he.
Whether or not you wish to call a transgendered or transexual person an "it" is your own business, and not recognize someone's personal autonomy to gender identify. I'm not certain it has anything to do with the "truth".
Well at lest your not certain that means you are a thinking person.

I'm surprised that for all the jumping up and down about PC'ness, one's right to say what one wishes to say, to call things what they want to call them, vile Thought Policing, and hubris about self-determination and one' own sovereignty of mind (all very good points indeed ) consider one may have overlooked this person's own right to self sovereignty, governance and autonomy and to fight for the same respect others demand here.
There was none of that until a local National Socialist jumped in and starting slinging insults.
Just a thought.

I had a thought too! After careful study of your show case I must conclude that you are 100% delicious looking woman.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Miss Valentina

But please let me posit that though you may lack dexterity in calling "he" a "she" just because she doesn't seem passable as a woman, at what level of passability does she earn that right?

When the law is changed perhaps? Until then he remains a dude.

When the hormones soften her facial structure, when she shaves down the cartilage on her Adam's Apple, when she cuts off the male member and forms it into some manner of a vulva? How much must she do to sate your idea of what makes her feminine and thus earn the pronoun "she"?

Whoa...... There are a lot of shes'/females that are not remotely "feminine"...... No matter how masculine they are in appearance.... They will remain lady and mamm.....

Or will she never be a woman because her DNA will never justify that claim? Yes, Texas law will not recognize her as female, but to make what is "lawful" a basis of what you what you will or will not do, or as a guide to your own personal morality please consider that we are on this particular site. All of us here are doing so in flagranti of the law.

We all have limitations though. Some have less respect for the law that others....

To me she could play football, wear a suit, have no manner of tits, or thighs, breasts or vagina and if she perceives herself as a she, and wishes to be called so, fuck it, to me she's a she. As Mr. Jefferson said: "If it neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg...", then who cares. To me the topic does not warrant such bellicosity on either side. When in question, default to kindness and respect which should be easy; we're adults in fact.

Some maybe......

[Toyz]

Originally Posted by Still Looking

I'm OK with "that fucker!"

Well just to be technically correct, wouldn't it be "That Cocksucker" instead of "That Fucker"?

Just asking...

[Miss Valentina]

Why thank you Hark. What femininity Providence overlooked in the form of Madam Amber, it bestowed on me in spades in shape and personality. Terribly unfair I'm afraid. Sometimes I am in a fret about what to do about all this God damnedable lady-ness.

If I may I posit with the greatest respect Gentleman, please consider the importance of one's ability to form an image of one's self and to cultivate a personae congruent with how one perceives one's self in the world, something the majority of us having this conversation enjoy without thinking about, and for the most part, people respect the image we have presented without challenge. We are all very fortunate in this way, some do not have this luxury.

Some might argue they are not in any way obliged to respect her vision of herself. Ok, sure, no problem, as for me, it makes no difference and requires absolutely no energy to do so, but I am nothing, nothing if not...nimble

Maybe I will see some of " You Fuckers" shortly!

[Still Looking]

Originally Posted by Toyz

Well just to be technically correct, wouldn't it be "That Cocksucker" instead of "That Fucker"?

Just asking...

Let me do a flow chart...

SL: "That Fucker"

TS: That "Cock Sucker"

Should be easy to follow now...

[Still Looking]

Originally Posted by Miss Valentina

Why thank you Hark. What femininity Providence overlooked in the form of Madam Amber, it bestowed on me in spades in shape and personality. Terribly unfair I'm afraid. Sometimes I am in a fret about what to do about all this God damnedable lady-ness.

If I may I posit with the greatest respect Gentleman, please consider the importance of one's ability to form an image of one's self and to cultivate a personae congruent with how one perceives one's self in the world, something the majority of us having this conversation enjoy without thinking about, and for the most part, people respect the image we have presented without challenge. We are all very fortunate in this way, some do not have this luxury.

Some might argue they are not in any way obliged to respect her vision of herself. Ok, sure, no problem, as for me, it makes no difference and requires absolutely no energy to do so, but I am nothing, nothing if not...nimble

Maybe I will see some of " You Fuckers" shortly!

Did you mean Toyz?

[Toyz]

Originally Posted by Still Looking

Let me do a flow chart...

You're charting FLOWS now?

The vast array of information you supply is truly endless.

Spare the videos & pics on this one please.

[Still Looking]

Originally Posted by Toyz

You're charting FLOWS now?

The vast array of information you supply is truly endless.

Spare the videos & pics on this one please.

SL during the day...



But late at night...



TS SL.... Any takers?

[fun2come]

From SL "That Fucker" to SL "That Cock Sucker" ... in one easy WHACK

[cinnamonshark]

Originally Posted by Still Looking

SL'S Top 10 Things You'll NEVER hear "SL" say!

1) Hey Sixxback you sure look good in those Haggar Slacks
2) Whispers your zipper is stuck, do you want some help?
3) Bad day Spacemtn?.... want a back rub?
4) Hey Toyz you want to make $20 the hard way?
5) Hey Ztonk are you shy or just playing hard to get?
6) Hey Fun2Come you sure look sexy in those leather shorts!
7) Men's Lounge... SLAMDANGO® anyone?
8) Hey ffireman can I have a ride in your Fire Truck?
9) Any one have Rockin Brandy's number?
10) Hey TS Amber Rose is that a banana in your pants or are you just happy to see me?

Originally Posted by fun2come

LOL, Lederhosen, not leather shorts .... (avatar will be back after the World Cup) ...

You should see me in my Speedo's though ....
... just trying to expand your non-preference list.

AND don't you call me fucking Leatherpants or Leathershorts, I demand respect, now Speedy on the other hand, would be acceptable.

.....and why not, F2C? Seems like the ladies love them. They keep ripping them off of you or stealing them from you to try them on.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Still Looking

Let me do a flow chart...

SL: "That Fucker"

TS: That "Cock Sucker"

Should be easy to follow now...

You can't chart his flow. Hei's a dude man! Aunt Flow don't visit him!