Does Vagina Envy Fuel Misogyny--especially in the hobby?

[Guest021716-4]

Apparently, this guy thinks so! Don't worry, insecure providers and women get it too!


novagiovanni.com/2013/07/24/vagina-envy-a-motive-behind-misogyny-by-nova-giovanni/

[Guest021716-4]

Here is the full article, Enjoy!!

Hello, loyal reader. I know it has been a while, but Nova Giovanni is back with more Ramen Noodle Soup for Your Soul. No long introduction is needed for this article. Let’s get right into it…
Misogyny – noun. The hatred of women by men: “struggling against thinly disguised misogyny”.
In this new age of information (and misinformation), where new ideas are available at our fingertips, so are new types of people. Thanks to social networks I have recently come into contact with a new type of person, the man that constantly takes it upon himself to tell women what to do (with their bodies, clothing, hair, etc.). Being the man I am, and have been in the past (I admit, I haven’t been the most respectful to women in the past), I still could not find a sensible reason as to why a man would not only have these thoughts of how they think a woman should be, but be arrogant enough to let that stupidity travel to their fingers and to type it to a group of strangers. I am married and can’t even find it in me to tell my wife what to do or wear, let alone women worldwide I have never met and most likely never will. After careful contemplation, I came to a conclusion. There are men far and wide suffering from a condition I like to call Vagina Envy. Nova Knows.
I clearly remember logging onto Twitter one night and seeing a whole group of men discussing with each other why women should not wear wedges. After a little research, I found out wedges are a type of shoe. To the men discussing it they may have thought it appeared as if they were showing their authority (which they don’t have), but to those with a brain it shows they feel inadequate in some part of their lives. I translated them saying, “Women shouldn’t wear wedges”, into, “I wish I was a woman. If I was a woman I would not wear wedges. I wish I had a vagina.” Not only was I surprised at seeing a group of men discussing something so meaningless to most men, but I was surprised at how many men were engaged in the discussion, all putting their Vagina Envy on display for the world to see and the internet to record eternally. Vagina Envy breeds misogyny and misogynysts breed ignorance. I at one time was immature in my relations to women, but I am proud to say I have never suffered from this awful condition known as Vagina Envy.
I don’t believe Vagina Envy is the only cause of misogyny, I would be naïve to believe so. I have also witnessed men lashing out at women out of rebellion. “Rebellion?”, you say. Wait, I’ll explain. We must remind ourselves that the internet exposes us to people we normally would not in our lives. I, for example, might meet people in restaurants, social gatherings, or conferences. What do all these events have in common? They cost in some way, either through paying for admittance, transportation, or both. Social networks don’t have such requirements. Social networks are free to those men who can’t afford to attend these types of things and requires no transportation. For lack of a better word, we are exposed to the vagabonds of the world through social networks. I said all that to say this, the internet opens us up to a lot of losers. A lot of these grown live off their mother, mooch off their babymother, or some other woman they can be a parasite to. They have no free reign in the home they reside in and look at that woman taking care of them as an oppressor. Instead of rebelling against that woman and risking homelessness, it is much easier for them to release that tension by taking it out on women online who resemble those they see as their oppressor (their mother, babymother, etc.). Therefore, it is common to log onto Twitter (or any other social network for that matter) and see a young Black man insulting, single mothers, darkskinned women, “hoes”, and whatever other label they can put on a woman. But if you visit their homes, you’d see their mother is single, darkskinned, and a h… ***loses signal***


THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE, BTW. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. THIS GOES ACROSS THE BOARD TO ALL RACES.

[Centaur]

Reads exactly like a church sermon. Take real evil (in this case misogyny, but it could just as well be gang violence, terrorism, Vikings, ect...). Attach it to your own pet moral theory without a shred of hard sociological evidence to back it up. Throw in an easy scapegoat few or none will come to the defense of (basement dwellers, terrorists, Jews, you the get the idea). Add a cup of ad hominem and sprinkle with straw men. Bake at firebrand for 10 minutes. Remember, the key to effective propaganda (and commercial marketing) is not to appeal to reason. Reason can be debated. Instead appeal to strong emotions, especially fears and insecurities. No greater tool in the propagandist's belt than irrational association with something or someone the audience has a preconceived judgement about has ever been invented. Be sure to generalize from a cackle of Twits to the whole of Western civilization, because many folks secretly (or not so secretly) hate Twitter.

I once was a sinner, but then I saw the light. Repent now or be judged by me!

He forgot he lives in a glass house. The cost barrier to blogging out your ass on the intertubes is well within the reach of losers.

[Guest021716-4]

It's. just. an. article. It made me giggle. I thought others might find it funny, wether they admit it or not!

[BlisswithKriss]

It would be interesting to swap out my cock for a vagina for the weekend and see if I am rather envious, but I doubt it being a philogynist.
Could that also mean as a contrast that ladies could be jealous of the almighty cock.
Penis envy perhaps ?

[JennsLolli]

Hiccup

[JennsLolli]

Penis envy and womb envy. These are things which many a word have been written about. I think male privilege is what really leads to misogyny. Give someone unearned power and they begin to feel might entitled. When people feel entitled, natural objectification (of anyone other than self) turns into extreme objectification and people begin to throw around all sorts of unauthorized opinions. Everyone can have an opinion, absolutely, but start using those opinions to strong arm those with a less power, a smaller voice, etc...and, well...I don't think this is the forum/thread to discuss this in too much detail.

[Centaur]

Originally Posted by Scarlett De Rossi

It's. just. an. article. It made me giggle. I thought others might find it funny, wether they admit it or not!

I wouldn't say funny, but it's an amusing bit of mediocre propaganda. Good propaganda wins over those on the fence. Great propaganda converts opposition. Propaganda need not even be incorrect in its arguments, but this particular article is weaksauce. Nor need it be built on shoddy reasoning, but this article is. It's also classist (vagabonds?).

I think perhaps the nature of the typed word led you to misunderstand my tone. I take no exception to the piece. If I could switch genders for a while I would to see what it's like. But I don't envy women's reproductive organs. The ability to viviparously bear children is undoubtedly a wondrous experience for many (I'd hazard to guess most, but I could be wrong) women...though, as with the pain of childbirth, women are obviously as diverse as men in their predispositions, predilections and tolerances. I'm a philosophical person with strong emotions, so I would probably be one such person if I were a woman, but that's pretty speculative. I find no value in envying that which I cannot possibly experience. To do so is, I believe, a complete waste of energy.

If you ask a relatively deep question, expect more than a few chuckles. If you resent (I assume that's what all the extra punctuation in your retort represented) others having an opinion on an article you choose to post in full, don't post it. I appreciated the question and the article and hoped it would stir an interesting conversation. I didn't realize you'd be irritated at anything more than an LOL. I like you as a person and a board member, but I've noticed you tend to get irate when anyone tries to respond to you in kind. You come across as having a double-standard. You already dominate Austin co-ed - not a bad thing, IMHO, as you do so in an entertaining and mostly courteous manner. You don't need to browbeat other participants. Being misunderstood isn't always a result of the audience being inferior. I mention this only because, having met, you seem like the sort of person who at least will not dismiss honest feedback out of hand. I'm not trying to pick a fight.

Originally Posted by JennsLolli

Penis envy and womb envy.

As far as I can tell, penis envy among men usually comes from feelings of insecurity about being able to satisfy a sexual partner (I would not hazzard a guess whether it's as true among gay as straight men). I can certainly understand envying male privilege. But why would women envy male reproductive organs? Is it the ability to reproduce without all the difficult aspects of childbirth?

Originally Posted by JennsLolli

These are things which many a word have been written about.

Indeed, but which of the conclusions, if any, have been correct?

Originally Posted by JennsLolli

When people feel entitled, natural objectification (of anyone other than self) turns into extreme objectification

What is natural objectification? A person is not his or her body; that is only one aspect of who someone is. A person is at least first and foremost, if not exclusively, a mind (or soul if you believe souls exist, which I do not). Yes, the mind is continuous with the body, and even extensions of self-hood beyond the body shape who someone is. Yet natural - which is to say genetically compelled - desire for the physicality of one's own species is not objectification of the people themselves. Maybe you meant something else by natural objectification? But given the context of the conversation, it seems like you were using definition #3:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/objectify#English

...in which case I cannot fathom what is natural about treating other people as mere objects. It's true that no one has proffered a conclusive solution to the problem of other minds. But most people still assume there is indeed a self-aware being in other human beings. When this has not been the norm, i.e. societies that literally deny the consciousness of oppressed groups to rationalize their dehumanization, it has been the result of highly contrived social inequalities, with nothing natural about it. Perhaps there is a bit of instinctual objectification of the Other going all the way back to paleolithic tribes. I would be very surprised if even those early humans and other hominids didn't strongly suspect other individuals beyond their extended tribal family were in fact as conscious as they themselves. Many cultures have even extended the assumption of personhood to non-human organisms and even elemental forces of nature. I myself think there's a strong argument to be made that other animals are self-aware and conscious, albit not as complexly as H. sap.

Any clarification would be appreciated, though by no means demanded.

Originally Posted by JennsLolli

I don't think this is the forum/thread to discuss this in too much detail.

Why not? Seriously, I'm wondering.

[Guest021716-4]

Tongue- in- cheek, Sir!!! Nothing more! *scouts honor* I will start digging now.

[Centaur]

Given all those girl scout cookies you've sold, I must take you at your word. G'nite, Scarlett.

[Guest021716-4]

[Pitfall]

Originally Posted by JennsLolli

I think male privilege is what really leads to misogyny. Give someone unearned power and they begin to feel might entitled.

This.

Also, in our current American culture, being "The Customer" gives you some type of authority over the proprieter you're doing business with. Spectacular customer service is considered a right by many, with retaliation through moral outrage and shame if it is not provided. It appears to me that this certainly has spilled over into the hobby, probably with the help of sites like these.

[Guest021716-4]

Agreed and a very intersting observation that only brings up more questions and observations!

QUOTE=CatPee;1055165955]This.

Also, in our current American culture, being "The Customer" gives you some type of authority over the proprieter you're doing business with. Spectacular customer service is considered a right by many, with retaliation through moral outrage and shame if it is not provided. It appears to me that this certainly has spilled over into the hobby, probably with the help of sites like these.[/QUOTE]

[Mr Peabody]

Girl Scout cookies... what a great way to introduce our nations' youth to capitalism. Here we have a product that is comparable to anything else you find on the grocer shelves, yet the targeted advertising and mystique has created a profit advantage. The limited time offer which limits supply also makes these an upscale product. Then the availability timing, mid-February when people are falling off their new-years-resolution diets, is just marketing genius. When we see entrepreneurism like this we should take note and emulate it.

WTF was the topic?

Oh yeah, it doesn't seem like males with vagina envy are likely to get involved with this hobby.

[chelseabean]

Originally Posted by CatPee

This.

Also, in our current American culture, being "The Customer" gives you some type of authority over the proprieter you're doing business with. Spectacular customer service is considered a right by many, with retaliation through moral outrage and shame if it is not provided. It appears to me that this certainly has spilled over into the hobby, probably with the help of sites like these.

Yesss! Bratty, American consumerism ain't just a....something in somewhere...you get where it's goin.....