My History With Posses

[TinMan]

The "Shep Posse" debate being played out in another thread is reminiscent of so many similar soap operas I've witnessed in the 15 year history of modern Internet hobbying that I thought a general discussion might be deserving of its own thread. I'll share my own experiences and the conclusions I've drawn from them, since I think some perspective from a guy that's been around is in order.

For those that don't know me from aspd, I was a prolific reviewer back in the day. If they had kept track of such things, and if the database hadn't suffered several losses over the years, you would have seen my name on the left hand side of the home page screen. Back then, Chipper was daaaaaman (he certainly was The Man in my eyes) and I was at least majicream when it came to review frequency.

That kind of activity gets you invited to a lot of private groups. I accepted these invitations because I'm one who believes the more sources of information you can acquire, the better. Most had some social component to them, and I accepted in several cases where I perceived the organizers valued discretion and privacy as much as I do.

Inevitably, and I think in every case, the organizers became embroiled in some sort of controversy. I think the "pimp" title was awarded to every single one of them. In a few cases it turned out to be true, and I suspect in most cases there was at least some benefit accruing to the organizers for their efforts. I certainly wouldn't do it for nothing if I had been them.

Some of these groups were good at ferreting out new gals getting into the business, usually strippers the "leaders" met at the clubs. Guys like me may get an early shot at meeting them, but it didn't take long before they became known to the general public. I was never offered any freebies for reviews, nor did I get any discount beyond what a new gal normally offers in W&I today. Any association with the group eventually ended once the reviews got published and the market took over.

Rumors of "control" came up from time to time, but I can tell you as an active participant in many of those groups that the "leaders" of said groups exercised very little control over the market. Sure, some members envisioned themselves as the OPEC of Pussy, but they invariably failed in their attempts to keep prices down. Mods who were members were accused of dastardly conspiracies that turned out to have little bearing on the market, even if some of the allegations were true.

I'm no longer a high-volume reviewer that gets invited to private groups, so I don't know the inner workings of any of the current-day "posses". I do pay attention to the market, however, and see the same thing I experienced back in the aspd days: lots of accusations, some true and some not. Lots of smoke, with little fire. Lots of big talk, usually behind the scenes. And in the end, it has no impact on the average hobbyist or provider. It's just a soap opera that is interesting to watch. If you don't like them, ignore them and they will go away...at least in the sense that they have any influence in your life, whether you are a hobbyist or provider.

Discuss....

[Jewish Lawyer]

Wow, I didn't know that those private groups existed, because I have never been invited. That at least proves your thesis that they don't have pricing power because the market is too large for them to exert influence.

[TinMan]

Yep, but you don't need my thesis to prove that point. Just look at how prices have been trending in recent months. They're going up, not down.

But just wait, someone will soon come along and claim a hooker cartel is causing prices to rise.

[SD2011]

Great post (seriously).

I'm not a member of any group, any posse and have no desire to be.

On the sock-puppetry, fake reviews, targeted reviews, this place has reached the "jump the shark" moment.

Whoever runs this website, has sat back and allowed a train-wreck to the intended business proposition/value of this website to happen on their watch either by accident, or by being part of the problem (e.g., those posses/cliques).

They (site owners) should take the time to review the IP's of the more prolific trouble spots/makers and delete the ones (eccie handles) that you find are duplicated (e.g., sock-puppets).

They should also cull the reviews that appear to be provider/manager initiated and those that indicate hobbyist/provider collusion (aka same IP's), along those that are clearly targeting a provider to hurt her business/reputation and just be done with it.

Will it take time? yes. Will people bitch about it? yes.

Who cares...they really should clean it up

[Hercules]

I had been invited to more then one social and to share a beer here-n-there.. I flatly turned everyone of them down. Biggest fear was finding out who some of the other guys were (Dad!!! Does Mom know you're SUPERHOBBIEST). And also I do NOT want my personal info shared amongst some hooker quilting circle.

Couple of guys and girls took my refusal as a insult. Would try and black ball me from seeing any lady in their speshul little "group". Didn't matter. I'm still happily pounding the mounds.

I will say that if I get wind that any lady is involved in any sort of "group" I will avoid her like the plaque now. I don't want, need or can tolerate drama.

And when the ladies' rates start going up...just a sign of the economy picking up and spending money getting more plentiful.

[LoveNHorny]

Thanks TM,

You have a more 'complete' perspective as usual. I was in Houston back then. I made a friend. I went to a couple "socials" and a SC meet. I stayed on the fringe. There was drama, risk, and there were egos. It just wasn't worth it to get overly involved. (I remember Chippers work.)

SD, I understand where you're coming from, but it's more difficult than you might think for the site management to get involved as you've suggested. It can be a huge workload to police the fringe altercations. It can be slippery (and often grey) to determine who gets the axe and who doesn't.

Yes, people would bitch, and I would agree with some of them.

My humble .02,
LnH

p.s. hooker cartels... Now that's funny!

[TinMan]

Regarding socials, I flat out refused even then to attend any of the "big" parties that are so fondly remembered now. The events I attended were much smaller affairs that were not known outside the circle. The world has changed, however, and I wouldn't attend any such gathering given how easy it is to place someone at these events.

[DallasDoc]

Times are different now.
Back in the day, we had some great socials.
The community was friendlier, but there were still dramas, cat fights, dick swinging fights, and an occasional outing.

We had a few groups of people that did events, something I don't think can work anymore.

Things now are just bigger.

The internet and info on it and what is available is much bigger, also smart camera phones, and social networks, exposure is just enormous.

Risks always existed, just now a lot more.

Tinman it is great to remember to good ole days, All we can do is that, those days are gone.

[Guest062316]

The owners of eccie are in sheps group many of us have met them. The mods do go to the socials as well. It is unfair to those of us not in a group for many reasons.

I personally am no longer accepting new clients due to fear of fake reviews and review control

[Say What]

Interesting point(s), TM.

In many of the current board-topping threads, members keep referring to ANYONE that may associate with other members in a social setting as a member of a 'posse' or a 'clique'. And, you know, that's fine. To each his/her own.

I have been a part of a few of these groups, by choice, after having been invited. They aren't for everyone, but my experiences have all been positive. Ladies and gents alike behaved themselves and treated one another well. Sure, in some cases personalities clashed, but that happens at work, on sports teams, in school, etc. Even amongst the non-socializing members of ECCIE there are drama-threads and mud slinging. It happens every day (hour).

Again, in my own experience, the ladies and gents that socialized off-site tended to comment on one another's reviews and threads...not because they were against the world, but because they had shared a beer or something. I don't think it's evil or deviant to post an 'attaboy' on a hobby-buddy's review or to make a comment on a lady's review that says something like, "Great review. She's an excellent provider and well worth the time and effort." That's valuable information to someone reading her reviews later and trying to see whether or nor she is consistent...IMO.

Maybe the ladies that attend OTC happy hours get more comments...I don't know. There are a million reasons that gents comment on threads/reviews - some good, some bad. To assume that there is some concerted effort to promote ladies in the 'clique' is sorta silly. If she's not someone that I've had a beer with, but she sucked my balls really well in a session, I'll probably be a big fan of her's and comment on her reviews/threads.

I've also noticed that certain members keep referring to gents that comment in each other's reviews frequently as 'fanboys' or worse. Look, if you and I have shared a beer, I'm just more likely to click on a review /thread that you started. Since I can't comment on threads I don't open, chances are that I will comment on your reviews more frequently than those written by someone I haven't met. It's not diabolical. It makes perfect sense.

As for the speculation that 'cliques' - one 'clique' in particular - is orchestrating a planned attack on certain members of this community is silly to me. I happen to like the gents that are being accused of this nonsense and I've never heard any of them talk about going after someone or discrediting a provider. Im not saying that its never happened, but recent events came as a surprise to me.

I've been dragged into the mud just for knowing certain people. Guilty by association I suppose. I'm not upset by it. In fact, I sorta get it. Just small minds at work IMO. But, going after anyone that is associated with someone they don't like and then ranting on and on about their orchestrated attacks is a bit ridiculous. Pot, meet kettle!

I agree with TM 100% when he says that 'pimp' and 'leaders' and 'control' are words that are often thrown at people in a 'posse' whether they are deserved or not. For some reason, the current fad seems to be calling individuals that write a large number of reviews 'elitists' or worse. Isn't 'sharing' an experience vital to the purpose of this site? Sure does seem like it. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Either way, I'll continue to hobby the way I want to hobby and everyone else should do the same. I'll continue to see the ladies I choose to see - and not see the ladies that I don't. I'll write as many reviews as I damn well please. And, I'll share a cold beer with whom I choose. To anyone that disagrees with me, more power to you. Hobby in secret, don't share your experiences, or stay away from 'cliques' and 'posses' if you choose. The beauty of it is...it's up to you.

And, THAT, is my history with posses.

Regulators! Mount up!
Too soon?

EDIT - I saw that Lola posted in this thread between the time that I started my post and submitted it. I wasn't intending to post after her and my comments have nothing to do with her personally. Hell, I've written two very positive reviews for Lola. She treated me like a king. I didn't have any of the issues with her that were reported in recent reviews (fake or real).

[TinMan]

Fwiw, Lola, I was part of several groups that also included aspd senior management (I call them that because the site was technically owned by a retired provider). They didn't seem to call the shots on who saw who or what they charged any more than I suspect Eccie owners do now. As Jewish Lawyer stated, the market is just too big.

And despite the drama of the past few weeks, I still want to fuck you. I suspect a lot of other guys feel the same, which sorta proves my point.

[Luke Skywalker]

^^^^^^^^
What "Say What" said, but I do not possess his eloquence.

[TinMan]

Originally Posted by lukeskywalker7667

^^^^^^^^
What "Say What" said, but I do not possess his eloquence.

He did bring up a good point. There have been occasions where I wanted to throw out the "fanboy" insult, and then remembered I used to do the same with my buddies back when I was one of "the guys". Same exact thing...I tended to read their reviews more than the others, and I had met them or frequently corresponded with them. No agenda on my part, but I bet an outsider might come to a different conclusion. I stopped giving "attaboys" mainly because I got tired of reading them.

[ElisabethWhispers]

Originally Posted by Lolabrea01

The owners of eccie are in sheps group many of us have met them. The mods do go to the socials as well. It is unfair to those of us not in a group for many reasons.

I personally am no longer accepting new clients due to fear of fake reviews and review control

I'm not in any "groups" and I have also declined every single social invitation that I've ever received, except for one. And that was over 7 years ago. Never again.

So I'm not in any group.

Although ... I will share this. I have thought, over the years, of resurrecting a type of "martini time" event. Very small. Very much an invite-only type of event. Introduce ladies who have never BEEN on this board and a few that are. Make it something very sweet for those invited.

But I've just never actually taken the plunge. And even if I did, no one here would know about it, unless you were invited.

And if you told someone about it? You would be off the list.

Obviously, all of this is academic since I have no such plans.

Nice topic, Tinman. But I would expect no less.

Elisabeth

Edited to add: I know that it might sound self serving to write this but in my years of moderating, I've seen VERY few examples (and none in Dallas) of men trying to get favors or push people around. Most of us are here to help and perhaps, if we're lucky, have some fun in the process. Seriously, these guys do some great work, behind the scenes and in front of it.

[Say What]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

I know that it might sound self serving to write this but in my years of moderating, I've seen VERY few examples (and none in Dallas) of men trying to get favors or push people around. Most of us are here to help and perhaps, if we're lucky, have some fun in the process. Seriously, these guys do some great work, behind the scenes and in front of it.

It doesn't sound self serving at all. You're a rare voice of reason here.