Redistribution of wealth

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by WTF

Do your own research Einstein, especially if you do not trust mine. Then talk shit. You got any facts to dispute what I copied?

I'd have to care about the argument first.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by pjorourke

I'd have to care about the argument first.

Well (in my best Reagan accent) you tried my link and then cared enough to comment.

My link is working just fine now

http://teacherportal.com/salary/Wisc...teacher-salary

[Guest083011]

Umm anything going on in this thread I need to pay attention to or can we just take it down a notch?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by SR Only

Umm anything going on in this thread I need to pay attention to or can we just take it down a notch?

No I think I can handle their insults SR. Thanks though.

I do not want to see my poor brothers get in trouble because of a emotional outburst.

[I B Hankering]

Except when the government is going broke. Would you not agree that before we disband the military because we are broke, we should renegoiate their contract? All I am using is the same logic you use on the teachers union. Use your Google power and research the interwar status of the U.S. military. After each war - since the American Revolution - the Army, Navy and Marine Corp were all but disbanded. It's been policy since day one.



No he is not. He has stated it is a take it or leave it.

The same can be said for teachers , Jesus. The only difference is they have an advocate in their corner What part of tenure do you not understand? Service personnel do not enjoy tenure.

You are hypocrites in this regard. I see no hypocrisy in what I have posted. Perhaps it's just beyond your understanding.Pure and simple. If the soldiers do not like what the government proposes they might need to think about starting their own union. Ever thought about it like that IB? It's against the law dude. Change the law, you have no problem with the Wisc. Gov doing so. Hypocrite.Now you're advocating for a military junta?

without a union or collective bargaining rights the government will fuc you ten times over. Are you suggesting this is morally or legally appropriate? I am suggesting you enter reality. That is how things works when you have an imbalance of power. There is no moral judgment in that observable fact. I do live in the real world. You are arguing that service personnel and teachers are contracted in exactly the same way, and that is preposterous. I've enumerated the differences. Your failure to understand is your personal problem.[/quote]

[Doove]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

Seriously, you are way out of bounds now. The military does not have collective bargaining as unions. The majority of the military are enlisted people making a lot less than the starting pay of most teachers depending on COLA in the area. The military is a pyramidic hierarchy and for every one general there are thousands of enlisted non-rates (e3 and below).

If they took that money for "Health care" from the military an e-3 with less than 4 years would be making less than 23k per anum where a teacher in WI is making on avg 55k. Do some fucking research before you attack the people that ensure you have the right to spout your bullshit.

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You are purposely twisting DFW’s words. DFW said the E-3 contracted with the government for said wages and benefits.

On the contrary, you're the one twisting his words. He said nothing about any contract. All he whined about was how much an E-3 would make if they had to contribute to their health care.

[WTF]

without a union or collective bargaining rights the government will fuc you ten times over. Are you suggesting this is morally or legally appropriate? I am suggesting you enter reality. That is how things works when you have an imbalance of power. There is no moral judgment in that observable fact. I do live in the real world. You are arguing that service personnel and teachers are contracted in exactly the same way, and that is preposterous. I've enumerated the differences. Your failure to understand is your personal problem.
There are huge similarities, I am focusing on those because DFWS focused on the monetary issue, mainly the one that we are going broke and can not afford continuing to do exactly what we had been doing. So focusing on having teachers pay more into their healthcare cost is a fair comparison vs. soldiers pay more into theirs. It is as close to apples as one can get. That you are having trouble seeing that fact is probably the difference in me preferring tits and vaginia on the people I wrestle and you and the little Iowan preferring a nutsac on the ones you are up aganist.

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by WTF

You two are so full of bull .....here is what the starting pay for a teacher in said state is. Their housing is not paid for. They have no choice to live on campus for free or at a discount.

Next time you tell me to do some 'fucking research'' , I suggest you have your own duckies in a better row.


http://teacherportal.com/salary/Wisconsin-teacher-salary

Starting Salary: $25,222

If you had the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader, you would have seen that my post did not say STARTING SALARY, it said AVG. Secondly, YOU brought up the military while discussing TEACHERS which was most definatley a comparison of tax payer funded salaries. IB is correct you are trying to distort my words. I never said that teachers make too much, YOU did. Pay attention WTF, the mind is a terrible thing to use when you can't contribute to a factual conversation.

Originally Posted by Doove

On the contrary, you're the one twisting his words. He said nothing about any contract. All he whined about was how much an E-3 would make if they had to contribute to their health care.

Since your reading comprehension is no better than WTF's I would suggest staying out of adult conversations until you learn how to comprehend the written language. Have a fabulous day.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

you would have seen that my post did not say STARTING SALARY, it said AVG. Secondly, YOU brought up the military while discussing TEACHERS which was most definatley a comparison of tax payer funded salaries.


.

Actually you did say starting pay. Reread your own post.

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

Seriously, you are way out of bounds now. The military does not have collective bargaining as unions. The majority of the military are enlisted people making a lot less than the starting pay of most teachers depending on COLA in the area. The military is a pyramidic hierarchy and for every one general there are thousands of enlisted non-rates (e3 and below).

If they took that money for "Health care" from the military an e-3 with less than 4 years would be making less than 23k per anum where a teacher in WI is making on avg 55k. Do some fucking research before you attack the people that ensure you have the right to spout your bullshit.

You then compared the average salary of a WI teacher ( and even then you got that wrong, the average salary is 46k not 55k like you stated....do not ask me to do research unless you have your ducks in a row) with what amounts to the starting salary of an enlisted sailor with less than 4 years of service. A rather disingenuous method of comparison. . You have been less than factual in this debate and rather grumpy I might add, you need a hug?


You also failed to mention that a teacher has went to four years of college. Something that might account for the difference in starting salary. Let's look at what officers start out making.....the ones with a four year degree. A even better comparison in my book.



http://www.ehow.com/info_7856691_ave...or-salary.html

Officers earn a much higher salary with $2,745.60 per month as an O-1 with less than two years of experience up to $6,776.70 as an O-6 with four years of experience.

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

...If they took that money for "Health care" from the military an e-3 with less than 4 years would be making less than 23k per anum where a teacher in WI is making on avg 55k. Do some fucking research before you attack the people that ensure you have the right to spout your bullshit.

Originally Posted by WTF

Actually you did say starting pay. Reread your own post. ...

Where does it say STARTING?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by WTF

Officers earn a much higher salary with $2,745.60 per month as an O-1 with less than two years of experience up to $6,776.70 as an O-6 with four years of experience.

Certified doctors and lawyers often enter military service as O-3s, sometimes higher, based on their experience level. Are there any lawyers here wanna tell WTF how long it took you to become certified?

When you begin talking about 0-6s, then you are talking about someone with a skill set befitting a senior corporate manager with experience which could include administration, operations, logistics, policy and resource management on a large scale. An O-6 in a classroom??!! Get real! The duties and responsibilities of a superintendent of an urban school system only begin to approach those of an O-6. Compare those salaries.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Certified doctors and lawyers often enter military service as O-3s, sometimes higher, based on their experience level. Are there any lawyers here wanna tell WTF how long it took you to become certified?

.

As usual you Bullshit.

The starting pay of an officer is higher than that of a WI teacher. But they are close enough to call it a tie.

They both have four years of college.

We are talking about goverrnment workers and how they might start having to contribute more to their healthcare costs.

You two want to exempt military government workers just like that chicken shit WI Gov wants to exempt firefighters and police unions. In other words groups that tend to vote Republican

What a joke.

You pick and choose just what government workers are need to pay more of their health insurance and which one do not.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

Where does it say STARTING?

God Damn, no wonder I am having trouble getting you to understand shit!



--The military does not have collective bargaining as unions. The majority of the military are enlisted people making a lot less than the starting pay of most teachers depending on COLA in the area.---


I can't point it out for you. Above is the quote. , it is in post 250, surely you can find it with all those hints.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by WTF

Actually you did say starting pay. Reread your own post.







You then compared the average salary of a WI teacher ( and even then you got that wrong, the average salary is 46k not 55k like you stated....do not ask me to do research unless you have your ducks in a row) with what amounts to the starting salary of an enlisted sailor with less than 4 years of service. A rather disingenuous method of comparison. . You have been less than factual in this debate and rather grumpy I might add, you need a hug?


You also failed to mention that a teacher has went to four years of college. Something that might account for the difference in starting salary. Let's look at what officers start out making.....the ones with a four year degree. A even better comparison in my book.



http://www.ehow.com/info_7856691_ave...or-salary.html

Officers earn a much higher salary with $2,745.60 per month as an O-1 with less than two years of experience up to $6,776.70 as an O-6 with four years of experience.

I still maintain you are comparing apples to oranges, but you’ll never understand. Plus, you are the one who suggested an O-6 is equivalent to a classroom teacher. I merely illustrated your error. Likewise, O-3s and O-4s are not equivalent to classroom teachers, and I suggested you compare the salaries of military lawyers and doctors serving at the O-3 and O-4 level with those in the private sector and tell me you are not getting a helluva bargain. I respect teachers, they have their hands full. They do take work home, and they are involved in extra curricular activities. But if you still want to talk about O-1s, well let your little scientific mind work out this little math problem. An O-1 is present and active for duty 11 or more months a year, 24/7. So compute his annual salary and divide by 11 (service members earn 30 days leave each year). BTW, O-1s always get the shit details, and they often have to pull duty at night and on weekends. Now take the annual salary you cited above for those teachers and divide by nine (they are actually in the classroom—with students—only about 5 to 6 hours a day, 180 to 190 days per year – they typically do not have classroom duties on weekends—if they do, they are paid extra). Furthermore, teachers are frequently compensated with some sort of stipend when they supervise extra curricular activities like the yearbook or the Beta Club etc. Based on days worked, who gets the higher salary?

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by WTF

God Damn, no wonder I am having trouble getting you to understand shit!



--The military does not have collective bargaining as unions. The majority of the military are enlisted people making a lot less than the starting pay of most teachers depending on COLA in the area.---


I can't point it out for you. Above is the quote. , it is in post 250, surely you can find it with all those hints.

I was talking about a WI rate you dumb ass, the starting pay is NOT stated on that line, now IS IT? READING COMPREHENSION!!!