Evolution? Intelligent Design? God did it all in 7 days?

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

May I ask a question to the Bible believers here? If you believe the Bible, why are you here?

Probably the same reason that the Israelites wondered
around in the wilderness for 40 years until they all died
off, even after being first hand witness to Gods miracles.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Just to get a couple details straight, most scientists accept that the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. And your question about why man hadn't invented modern technologies 100,000 or more years ago can be partially answered by the fact that modern man (cro-magnon) doesn't appear in the fossil record til about 45,00 years ago, plus or minus a couple thousand. Modern mans oldest drawings are found in a cave in southern France and date to as old as 32,900 years ago. The name of the cave is Chauvet and the drawings are incredible for a number of reasons. There is even what appears to be a proto-language.

Ok let's use 40,000 years which still doesn't help your case- there are inventions that we have today that we didn't even have in the 1980's or 90's but let's go back 200 years- are you telling me that if you look at the inventions in the last 200 years and by your analysis modern man has been on earth for ~40,000 years- why have we only seen modern inventions in the last 200 years- why the huge gap in the first 39,800 years?

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Ok let's use 40,000 years which still doesn't help your case- there are inventions that we have today that we didn't even have in the 1980's or 90's but let's go back 200 years- are you telling me that if you look at the inventions in the last 200 years and by your analysis modern man has been on earth for ~40,000 years- why have we only seen modern inventions in the last 200 years- why the huge gap in the first 39,800 years?

Technological advances piggy back on prior advances. The growth of technology is exponential; it snowballs. Edison was able to use the sum total of knowledge that existed when he was born. Modern day scientists use Edison's contributions to the knowlege base to facilitate their work. Each generation doesn't have to reinvent the wheel.

Your argument is specious. You're essentially asking why didn't cavemen have cellphones.

"If I have seen further, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants." Albert Einstein

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Ok let's use 40,000 years which still doesn't help your case- there are inventions that we have today that we didn't even have in the 1980's or 90's but let's go back 200 years- are you telling me that if you look at the inventions in the last 200 years and by your analysis modern man has been on earth for ~40,000 years- why have we only seen modern inventions in the last 200 years- why the huge gap in the first 39,800 years?

Do you honestly believe that the rate of the expansion of knowledge today is the same as it was when the earth was populated by a few hundred thousand humans or even a few hundred million?
I'd also say that reducing your margin of error by at least 60% if not 6000% helps my case a great deal.
Funny. I'd have never pegged you as a young earth type.

[jbravo_123]

There are plenty of reasons for why technology advances at an exponential progression instead of a linear progression (ie, we build upon previous technologies instead of having to refigure everything out).

One big reason I've heard about is because early man even up until the past few hundred years was much more concerned about things like survival and basic needs. When mankind was much more focused on gathering food and shelter to meet basic needs, we had much less time to focus on things like improving our actual quality of life.

Essentially, when we developed enough farming technology to no longer require every human to be a hunter/gatherer 24 hours a day in order to stay alive and had essentially tamed the wilderness, mankind was finally able focus on creating non-essential survival technologies.

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Ok let's use 40,000 years which still doesn't help your case- there are inventions that we have today that we didn't even have in the 1980's or 90's but let's go back 200 years- are you telling me that if you look at the inventions in the last 200 years and by your analysis modern man has been on earth for ~40,000 years- why have we only seen modern inventions in the last 200 years- why the huge gap in the first 39,800 years?

BTW I share your questions about biology and it's explanations of the origins of life on earth. No one has ever come up with any kind of viable mechanism by which even the most rudimentary cells could have formed. Even if you could get amino acids to concentrate in the ocean (chemicals disperse in the ocean not concentrate), where did the dna come from to tell those acids how to line up, or by what mechanism were they physically moved into place? Where did the cell membrane come from?

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by jbravo_123

There are plenty of reasons for why technology advances at an exponential progression instead of a linear progression (ie, we build upon previous technologies instead of having to refigure everything out).

One big reason I've heard about is because early man even up until the past few hundred years was much more concerned about things like survival and basic needs. When mankind was much more focused on gathering food and shelter to meet basic needs, we had much less time to focus on things like improving our actual quality of life.

Essentially, when we developed enough farming technology to no longer require every human to be a hunter/gatherer 24 hours a day in order to stay alive and had essentially tamed the wilderness, mankind was finally able focus on creating non-essential survival technologies.

Absolutely correct!

[wellendowed1911]

You guys are dodging the question or not understanding what I am asking- Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest mentions man's brain enable them to survive because they were more intelligent than other creatures and knew how to adapt- ok if this is true- and modern man has been on earth for at least 40,000 years-- what the hell was going on in the first 39,000 years? Why are we seeing the greatest advancements in the last 170 years?


Also, how do evolutionist explain how among 99% of species there's male/female- yes they are a few living things that are asexual- but how could that possibly happen by chance? So if there were no creator - what is the likelihood of a species appearing and lo behold the same species pops up and happens to be the opposite sex- oh wait it also happens to have the exact organs to produce offspring???

I also asked how is it possible that same species are found on different continents- someone answered they walked, flew or continental drift- are you fucking kidding me? Hmmm Sloths have been found in various countries in South America and in Madagascar- sloths move at a speed of 5 feet a minute- wow wonder how long it would take for a sloth to migrate to another continent- yet alone migrate to another country in South America.

Also, I wonder why the genius that evolution is- wonder why sloths have not developed speed over all these years.

[joe bloe]

[QUOTE=Ducbutter;1052372456]BTW I share your questions about biology and it's explanations of the origins of life on earth. No one has ever come up with any kind of viable mechanism by which even the most rudimentary cells could have formed. Even if you could get amino acids to concentrate in the ocean (chemicals disperse in the ocean not concentrate), where did the dna come from to tell those acids how to line up, or by what mechanism were they physically moved into place? Where did the cell membrane come from?[/QUOTE]

Exactly; you can't get there from here. It's like having all the materials to build a house, throwing them up in the air and expecting a fully finished house to eventually get built.

Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA molecule, said DNA was too complex to have been the result of evolution. Crick is an atheist who believes in intelligent design; he thinks ET's provided the guiding intelligence. I think it's more reasonable to believe God did it.

http://exopermaculture.com/2011/04/1...ligent-design/

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by jbravo_123

There are plenty of reasons for why technology advances at an exponential progression instead of a linear progression (ie, we build upon previous technologies instead of having to refigure everything out).

One big reason I've heard about is because early man even up until the past few hundred years was much more concerned about things like survival and basic needs. When mankind was much more focused on gathering food and shelter to meet basic needs, we had much less time to focus on things like improving our actual quality of life.

Essentially, when we developed enough farming technology to no longer require every human to be a hunter/gatherer 24 hours a day in order to stay alive and had essentially tamed the wilderness, mankind was finally able focus on creating non-essential survival technologies.

ok let's use 2 old inventions- Fire- being one- look at the gap between when Man frst used fire to modern perfections of fire- how about the Wheel- the wheel was discovered 3500 B.C- again compare the wheel with when the automobile was invented- huge gap.
Now let's look at modern times- how many technological advances in the past 15 to 20 years with just the computer?

[wellendowed1911]

[QUOTE=joe bloe;1052372581]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

BTW I share your questions about biology and it's explanations of the origins of life on earth. No one has ever come up with any kind of viable mechanism by which even the most rudimentary cells could have formed. Even if you could get amino acids to concentrate in the ocean (chemicals disperse in the ocean not concentrate), where did the dna come from to tell those acids how to line up, or by what mechanism were they physically moved into place? Where did the cell membrane come from?[/QUOTE]

Exactly; you can't get there from here. It's like having all the materials to build a house, throwing them up in the air and expecting a fully finished house to eventually get built.

Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA molecule, said DNA was too complex to have been the result of evolution. Crick is an atheist who believes in intelligent design; he thinks ET's provided the guiding intelligence. I think it's more reasonable to believe God did it.

http://exopermaculture.com/2011/04/1...ligent-design/

Joe Bloe- Et's are by definition are beings/entities that are not from earth- technically God is an ET- by definition Jesus is an ET- by definition Angels and Demons are ET's. And Yes, I am still trying to find someone who can tell me how the pyramids got built- 1000 men using slave labor???- I don't think so- or who carried those enormous stones of Stonehedge? There were no cranes back in those days- . Pumapunku was built prior to the wheel being invented- how the heck did they move stones weighing 10 tons or more-???
I have heard some people theorize they had help from other sources- or that they had technology back than they we don't have now that somehow got lost.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Ok let's use 40,000 years which still doesn't help your case- there are inventions that we have today that we didn't even have in the 1980's or 90's but let's go back 200 years- are you telling me that if you look at the inventions in the last 200 years and by your analysis modern man has been on earth for ~40,000 years- why have we only seen modern inventions in the last 200 years- why the huge gap in the first 39,800 years?

Man was inventing things:

[joe bloe]

[QUOTE=wellendowed1911;10523726 18]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Joe Bloe- Et's are by definition are beings/entities that are not from earth- technically God is an ET- by definition Jesus is an ET- by definition Angels and Demons are ET's. And Yes, I am still trying to find someone who can tell me how the pyramids got built- 1000 men using slave labor???- I don't think so- or who carried those enormous stones of Stonehedge? There were no cranes back in those days- . Pumapunku was built prior to the wheel being invented- how the heck did they move stones weighing 10 tons or more-???
I have heard some people theorize they had help from other sources- or that they had technology back than they we don't have now that somehow got lost.

I don't think God is an ET in the truest sense of the term, even though he is extraterrestrial. ETs are physical beings made of physical stuff, just more advanced than us; at least that's the prevailing theory.

God is a supernatural being not limited by physical laws.

Actually, I think Crick's theory that DNA must have come from another planet, since it's too complex to have been created by evolution, is sort of silly. The ET's who supposedly designed the DNA molecule had to come from somewhere themselves; who designed them? At some point you have to acknowledge that life, anywhere in the universe, has to have been created by God.

[JD Barleycorn]

WE, you are demanding that we explain why a child who first learns to write hasn't written a Shakespeare sonnet by their six birthday. Learning, for most people, is a building process. Only a very rare few can make the incredible leaps from seeing a fire to understanding how metal can be shaped by fire much less pulling metal from the ore. The more people on the planet the more likely that someone will come along who can make the leap. 30 years ago we had pagers, mobile phones, computers, motion sensors, and cameras. It was only in the last 10 years that someone has put them together to create smart, interactive home security systems. In keeping with this site, the Internet existed long before Al Gore Jr. invented it but it was just a connection between some colleges and the military. Someone came along and figured that if they could offer sex as content then they could make some money. Sex made the Internet!

A few years ago there was a TV show called "The Adventures of Briscoe County Junior" starring Bruce Campbell. Though short lived it had a recurring plot device of the "next big thing". The show was set in about 1901. One epsisode had three men behind a one way window (itself an invention) watching two muscular, beautiful, European, blacksmith women as they interrogated a man. One was nice and the other was violent. While this went on one character turned to Briscoe County and said it wouldn't it be nice for a man to come to his own house, sit down in his parlor, and turn on some kind of wall where he could watch this (the interrogation) anytime he wanted. For a second he froze and then he asked could this be a next big thing?

To question the above post; fire, a discovery and not an invention. Probably first used for light and warmth. Protection probably came next. Cooking followed. Later they found it could melt the metal from ore and allow them to shape it into useful shapes. Pits were made to contain and intensify the heat followed by man made containers like forges, fireplaces, and kilns. This all happened before the Egyptians formed their empire as they had bronze weapons. Between 2000 BC and 1000 AD not much changed except for the fuel and temperatures reached. Crude blast furnaces allowed man to create hardened alloys for better weapons and create chain links. Everything changed with the Bessemer process when anything could be melted and shaped with such purity to create modern engineering standards. Why not question each period when no change occurred? As for the wheel, do you realize that the wheel had not come to sub-continental Africa before the 16th century. Ask yourself why. The middle east had roads for the wheel to ride on. Central Africa did not. Why didn't they have roads? The flora of central Africa grows too fast to maintain roads. The river was how you got around and small trails. So why didn't they invent or adapt the wheel? Because there was no good use for it. Is that because humans were stupid in central Africa or was it because it was a non-starter?

The computer dates back much further than 20 years ago. Look up the name Admiral Grace Hopper and see what she did with computers probably before you were born.

[Old-T]

WE,

You have been given many parts of the answer, but since they don't fit what you want to believe, you reject them.

Until relatively recently man was largely focused on survival. Read Maslow. Diseases, famine, etc., focused inventive thought on things to help the basics. If you think there were no amazing inventions, read about Machu Pichu, Chaco, etc. The difference was, instead of viewing computer games as the zenith, they foolishly though that food was more important. When the human population was vastly smaller, why did man need the internal combustion engine badly enough to develop it on YOUR precieved schedule? But when the Chin needed a vastly better concrete to survive, they invented it thousands of years before the europeans. When the Vikings realized better steal let them win fights--and thus live--they came up with it long before anyone else.

As to your questions about animal species "springing into life one day with a long neck", etc., look at corn. Man has carefully "evolved" corn in a few thousand years into something you would not recognize as the original grass. Nothing really different than evolution, except man sped up the selection by changing a small probabilistic advantage into a larger one. If in a few hundred years you can have a wolf, a malamute, and a doberman, then imagine how far they can drift in a few million.

The reality is, the ONLY argument you have for litteral creation is "I believe in the litteral bible because some people say it say it is litterally true." Well, the Koran says the same thing--why do you not blieve it instead? Many indigenous religeons say essentially the same thing, only it is oral tradition, not necesssarilly written. The oracles of Greece claim the gods themselves spoke to them directly--and that seems even closer to truth since they didn't have to rely upon layers of scribes, often generations removed; why don't you believe in Zeus since Zeus says he's real?

Believe whatever you want. But your litteralist beliefs do two things. They make you sound illogical, and they shout to the world that your god can only have created the world they way YOU can comprehend.

Personally, I believe in the Christian god, but I believe he is a lot smarter than I am. I beleive he does not want man to be stupid and ignorant, but that he wants us to try and understand what is truly around us I refuse to believe god did one thing and then sprinkled lots of evidence to the contrary just to fool us. That would be a being such as Loki, or in some cultures, the Raven. Is the current theory of evolution completely accurate? Almost certainly not. But the overwhelming evidence says evolution is a lot closer to what he did than litteral 6 day creationism.

PS: Last point: whey did the computer accelerate the growth of inventions? Really very simple (and what others have told you several times already), it was a foundational building block. Try this experiment:

(1) With only paper and pencil, compute the square root of 3 to 100 decimals. Time how long it takes you. Hand write letters to 20 people to pass this information on to them, and time how long it takes for them to receive the informatiom.

(2) Do it on a computer. Time how long it takes. Then e-mail the results, or post them on a facebook like site, to 20 people. See how long it takes.

The computer allowed us to speed up many other computations, and collaboration, that was not available prior.

But rather than try it out for yourself I suspect you will go to one of the web sites or books that lists 100 reasons creationism is true, and you'll pull out another flawed argument.