Evolution? Intelligent Design? God did it all in 7 days?

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

From another thread:




An evolved species?

Looks like you DO believe in evolution...

Never said that I don't believe in any form of evolution or
the possibility of some form of evolutionary processes
just don't believe it is some kind of answer to all existence
or negates the existence of God.

And pointed out the flaws in their theory that it does.

You haven't been paying attention.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Really? Who says so? That's one of those big lies that gets told so often, people think it must be true.

God, defined in the broadest terms as a universal creative force is perfectly consistant with science. Occam's razor says that the simplest answer, consistant with all the facts, is the answer most likely to be true.

God as creator is the simplest answer and the answer most likely to be true.

Science has no answer to the question of where did everything come from. Since science has no answer to the question, it proclaims the question to be unscientific.

Science will accept God as the answer if it is shown to be true. The problem is God has not yet obliged and some of us think, because of our knowledge of science (and lack of brain washing as a kid) that that is because there no such thing as God.

[wellendowed1911]

WTF is the bible is such a Fable can you please tell me how Moses got the creation order correct: 1. Light separated from darkness
2. Creation of the earth covered in water
3. The separation of the dry land from the seas
4 - 6. The creation of plants in a particular order - grasses, shrubs and fruit bearing trees
7. The placing of the heavenly bodies in relationship to the earth (this is often explained as the clearing of the atmosphere enough to see these creations)
8-11 The creation of animal life in a particular order - fish, birds, land animals, live stock
12. The creation of man

In other words Moses had less than one chance in 479 million of just correctly guessing.

Think of the problem like this. Take a deck of cards. Keep just one suit -let's say hearts. Toss out the ace. Hand the remaining twelve cards to a one year old child. Ask him/her to hand you the cards one at a time. In order. What are the chances said toddler will start with the two and give them all to you in order right up to the king? It's a basic probability question (no, come back! forget I said anything about math.) I'll just tell you the answer. It's one chance in 479,001,600. (If you want the formula it's below)
Formula:
The chance of getting the first card correct is 1 in 12. If you get that correct you have eleven cards left. The chance of getting the next card correct is 1 in 11. What are the chances of getting the first and second cards correct? It's 1 in 12 times 1 in 11 (1/(12*11) or 1 in 132. So the answer for getting all twelve in order is 1 in (12*11*10*9*8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1) or 1 in 479,001,600.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by WTF

How does the Bible know if he was or wasn't created?

Another question...you get sick. Who do you go for to get well? God or a Doctor?

Your Spirit gets sick, who do you go to?

People's actions show they know the difference between science and philosophy when their ass is on the line. None of you Bible thumpers go to a Priest when you have the flu. Your actions speak way louder to me than your typed bravado in all things Godly!

You asked who created God. Christians, Jews and probaby the vast majority of people on the Earth believe in a creator God that has always existed. It isn't just the Bible that proclaims it.

Do you ever pray? I bet you do. If you don't, you will eventually. I doubt you're a true atheist. There aren't too many of them. I'm not a "Bible thumper", but I do believe in God. To me it's just common sense.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by ExNYer

The existence of God is a question for philosophy - along with the meaning of life.

The mechanisms of life are questions for science. Not religious dogma.

Another argument full of holes.

The idea that they are mutually exclusive.

A weak attempt to separate the two that gets perpetuated.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

WTF is the bible is such a Fable can you please tell me how Moses got the creation order correct: 1. Light separated from darkness
2. Creation of the earth covered in water
3. The separation of the dry land from the seas
4 - 6. The creation of plants in a particular order - grasses, shrubs and fruit bearing trees
7. The placing of the heavenly bodies in relationship to the earth (this is often explained as the clearing of the atmosphere enough to see these creations)
8-11 The creation of animal life in a particular order - fish, birds, land animals, live stock
12. The creation of man

In other words Moses had less than one chance in 479 million of just correctly guessing.

Think of the problem like this. Take a deck of cards. Keep just one suit -let's say hearts. Toss out the ace. Hand the remaining twelve cards to a one year old child. Ask him/her to hand you the cards one at a time. In order. What are the chances said toddler will start with the two and give them all to you in order right up to the king? It's a basic probability question (no, come back! forget I said anything about math.) I'll just tell you the answer. It's one chance in 479,001,600. (If you want the formula it's below)
Formula:
The chance of getting the first card correct is 1 in 12. If you get that correct you have eleven cards left. The chance of getting the next card correct is 1 in 11. What are the chances of getting the first and second cards correct? It's 1 in 12 times 1 in 11 (1/(12*11) or 1 in 132. So the answer for getting all twelve in order is 1 in (12*11*10*9*8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1) or 1 in 479,001,600.

Well they say a Monkey could type out a Shakespeare play given the right amount of time.

Look brother, if you want to believe in your man in the sky fable, no sweat off my balls. I'm not convincing you otherwise and you ain't doing so to me. That said , there has been more than a few ladies that have made me Thank God over and over again.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by WTF

I said the Bible spots a bunch of nonsense. You are correct, laws are subjective. So no biblical laws should be followed? What is you logic here? That you should not follow the Bible? If so, that is exactly WTF I was telling joe!



Here is more nonsense and contradictions.


God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12

Funny, WTF can't see the difference in those two statements.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

You asked who created God. Christians, Jews and probaby the vast majority of people on the Earth believe in a creator God that has always existed. It isn't just the Bible that proclaims it.

Do you ever pray? I bet you do. If you don't, you will eventually. I doubt you're a true atheist. There aren't too many of them. I'm not a "Bible thumper", but I do believe in God. To me it's just common sense.

Sounds like me and you got two different versions of Common Sense

[WTF]

Originally Posted by bojulay

Funny, WTF can't see the difference in those two statements.

Funny you can!

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by WTF

God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19

You are really reaching with this one: And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

You have to go with the whole text instead of picking one verse to make a point- learn the history of the jewish people- but let me answer your question: s for the battle itself, there is no promise in the Bible that the Jews would win every battle. For any number of reasons, the Lord allowed the people of Judah only a limited success at that time and they were unable to conquer the people of the plain. A few possible reasons for this could include:

1). Exodus 23:29 indicates that the Lord would not allow the Israelites to conquer the land of Israel too quickly, because the Jews did not yet have a large enough population to occupy and maintain the whole land.

2). Another possible reason could be that the men of Judah allowed their fear to overcome their faith in the Lord. In fact, in Joshua 17:14-18, we see that Joshua is trying to convince his people that they can overcome troops that have iron chariots. In other words, Joshua 17:14-18 is showing us that indeed there was some fear and doubt among the Israelites as to whether they could defeat iron chariots. (Otherwise, Joshua would not have needed to try to convince them that they could).

3). We see in Deuteronomy 20:1 that the Israelites were not supposed to fear their opposing armies, but to have faith in the Lord instead: "When thou goest forth to battle against thine enemies, and seest horses, and chariots, [and] a people more than thou, thou shalt not be afraid of them; for Jehovah thy God is with thee, who brought thee up out of the land of Egypt."

WTF you are using a straw man' argument without understanding the Bible- one could say well if God was all-powerful why did he let Jesus die on the cross or if God was all-powerful couldn't he have "transported" his people out of the hands of Pharaoah? You are really picking without understanding the full picture- it would be as crazy as saying Micheal Jordan wasn't the greatest Basket Ball player ever and I show you a clip of Jordan missing a game winning shot or tell you that Muhammad Ali wasn't the greatest boxer ever and show you a film of Ali losing by TKO.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by WTF

Sounds like me and you got two different versions of Common Sense

I agree.

"Common sense is not so common."
Voltaire

PS Voltaire believed in God. His last written words were:

“I die adoring God, loving my friends, not hating my enemies, and detesting superstition."

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by WTF

Well they say a Monkey could type out a Shakespeare play given the right amount of time.

Look brother, if you want to believe in your man in the sky fable, no sweat off my balls. I'm not convincing you otherwise and you ain't doing so to me. That said , there has been more than a few ladies that have made me Thank God over and over again.

Well if you are happy to know that you came from an ape than so be it- I will have faith in God you can have faith in King Kong or whatever ape you think your ancestors evolved from.

[bojulay]

There are a lot of misconceptions about God

One of the biggest is that God is love.
Love is an attribute of God but God is not love.

The true essence of God is power.
If he is then he is the one in charge.

There are a great number of things that I think
that I would disagree with God about and a
great number of things I would do differently.

But I don't remember him asking.

If he is, then he is the boss and gets to make the rules.

Ant on a railroad track shaking his fist at an oncoming train,
yelling at it to get off of his track-------Splat!

[Guest032516]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

OLD T you are seriously wrong and I challenge you to quote your sources

This matter which is said to have created the planets would all need to spin in the same direction as the object it came from. So therefore, all of the planets should be spinning in the same direction.

However two of them are not. Venus and Uranus spin backwards

Old T you might want to go re-read that law-

Old-T does not have to re-read that law. But you might want to read it for the first time.

You are confusing a whole BUNCH of different things.

Including the difference between the orbit of a planet and the rotation of that planet.

First, according to theory, the Big Bang created all matter and flung it outward from the center at immense speed. It did NOT determine the spin directions of every clump of it. If you think that is true, then YOU quote YOUR source.

From large clouds of gas, mostly hydrogen, stars were formed, including our Sun. The gravitational attraction of the gas made it denser and denser at the center until fusion occurred. This created the heavier elements and also huge explosions that blasted the heavier elements out into space around the Sun.

The clouds of gas and dust from which the planets were formed did orbit around the sun in the same direction. That is why the planets all ORBIT in the same direction.

The orbiting comes from the fact that as gas and dust moved past a large gravitational body, their straight trajectories would be curved towards the center. If it moved slowly enough, it would spiral inward and become part of the star. Move too fast and it would simplify continue onward in space on slightly different trajectory. In the middle, the gas and dust would be captured in orbit around the baby star.

And if different parts of the gas and dust started rotating initially in different directions, it wouldn't last long. Collisions would eventually cause one direction to win.

Astronomers observe the same phenomena occurring around black holes. Swirling clouds of dust and gas rotate around black holes at millions of miles per hour as they are pulled in.

Clouds of dust and gas were drawn together by gravity to form clumps - that eventually became planets - as the clumps orbited tens or hundreds of millions of miles from the Sun.

These individual clumps did NOT all orbit in the same direction, because unlike the Sun, they were formed independently. So, the planets do not all rotate in the same direction - they are not required to. And they are tilted on their axes of rotations by different amounts also. See the link here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt

Uranus is tilted over on its side 90 degrees with respect to the plane of its orbit around the sun.

Conservation of angular momentum means that once a planet is spinning, it cannot stop unless an outside force acts on it to brake the rotation.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Well if you are happy to know that you came from an ape than so be it- I will have faith in God you can have faith in King Kong or whatever ape you think your ancestors evolved from.

As JD might say, "That is mighty white of ya!"