HUFFINGTON POST Article

[Whirlaway]

The FAIR tax.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...owFairTaxWorks

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

The FAIR tax.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...owFairTaxWorks

a family making 25K a year pays 23% sales tax

an individual making 200K a year pays 23% sales tax


who has the most disposable income after they buy the necessities it takes to live ?

fair?

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by Old-T

All well and good in theory. The devil is in the implementation. To tell someone "trust me, you're kids will be better off in 20 years, but in the mean time they have to live in a box and beg for food" is a tough sell. But it is the essential result of some of the more poorly thought out proposals.

The problem the fiscal conservatives have is convincing the people at the bottom--and even the middle--that the pain of fixing things will not be shared somewhat equitably. What is "equitable" to a person with a job, grown kids, and a hefty 401K doesn't seem equitable to a person working a job and a half as well as raising their grandkids--and being told that they are a drain on society because the grandkids might qualify for food stamps.

In politics, perception is reality most the time.

Reality is always reality all the time, even when we pretend it isn't.

We can pretend that continuing on the same path of a big government social welfare state can be sustained indefinitely, if only the evil rich can be forced to pay their fair share; it doesn't change the reality that without major cuts in entitlement spending, we're screwed.

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg.
Abraham Lincoln

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Reality is always reality all the time, even when we pretend it isn't.

We can pretend that continuing on the same path of a big government social welfare state can be sustained indefinitely, if only the evil rich can be forced to pay their fair share; it doesn't change the reality that without major cuts in entitlement spending, we're screwed.

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg.
Abraham Lincoln

if youre calling SS welfare, its not ... people pay into their account all of their working life

and

SS isnt part of the Federal Budget either ...

[Whirlaway]

The FAIR Tax system can exempt some necessities that all working families need. Like food and medicines. That can be worked out.

Originally Posted by CJ7

a family making 25K a year pays 23% sales tax

an individual making 200K a year pays 23% sales tax


who has the most disposable income after they buy the necessities it takes to live ?

fair?

[Whirlaway]

Many take out more than they have paid in; in that instance it is welfare.

And many only get back a nominal return on investment. In those cases it is theft by government.

Originally Posted by CJ7

if youre calling SS welfare, its not ... people pay into their account all of their working life

and

SS isnt part of the Federal Budget either ...

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

The FAIR Tax system can exempt some necessities that all working families need. Like food and medicines. That can be worked out.

but youre not willing to raise the SS tax 1% and solve the entire shortfall .. you would rather create MORE government even though you insist on having LESS government in your life ... got it.

1% would mean a working family making 40K would see an increase of 9$ a week .. I suppose youre against people paying for their SS too, since youre against everyone else paying for their slack ..

now go hide in the closet and ask yourself how in the hell did Obama get reelected ...

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Many take out more than they have paid in; in that instance it is welfare.

And many only get back a nominal return on investment. In those cases it is theft by government.

It's welfare if your contributions are minimal and you get full benefits that greatly exceed your contributions.

On the other hand, getting back more than you put in for most people is not welfare. We are forced to pay into Social Security against our will. We are entitled to get back what we put in with a reasonable rate of return.

If we were allowed to contribute to a private pension fund, instead of paying into Social Security, we would certainly expect to get every penny back plus substantial interest.

The federal government has been using the Social Security "trust fund" as a piggy bank since the sixties. Now there's nothing in the piggy bank but IOU's and no way to pay benefits to the Boomers.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

It's welfare if your contributions are minimal and you get full benefits that greatly exceed your contributions.

On the other hand, getting back more than you put in for most people is not welfare. We are forced to pay into Social Security against our will. We are entitled to get back what we put in with a reasonable rate of return.

If we were allowed to contribute to a private pension fund, instead of paying into Social Security, we would certainly expect to get every penny back plus substantial interest.

The federal government has been using the Social Security "trust fund" as a piggy bank since the sixties. Now there's nothing in the piggy bank but IOU's and no way to pay benefits to the Boomers.

private plans driven by what, the market? an employer? Overseen by who exactly?

sadly private pension funds are grossly underfunded these days, and you dont get back every penny you poured in for decades

[Whirlaway]

Pension plans are dinosaurs. Extinct, except for the public employees who have over inflated defined benefits. A whole other story of taxpayers being fucked.

Private retirement accounts which are self directed...IRA, Roth, etc. Accumulated wealth you can leave to beneficiaries of your choice, unlike SSI.

Get with the times CJ.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Pension plans are dinosaurs. Extinct, except for the public employees who have over inflated defined benefits. A whole other story of taxpayers being fucked.

Private retirement accounts which are self directed...IRA, Roth, etc. Accumulated wealth you can leave to beneficiaries of your choice, unlike SSI.

Get with the times CJ.

tell that to "private pension plan" Joe ... his exact words not mine


tax on IRA ... no tax on SS

dont tell Grover about that

[CuteOldGuy]

Until you have a basic understanding of the FairTax, CBJ7, there is no point in discussing it with you. Go to FairTax.org and learn something.

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by CJ7

a family making 25K a year pays 23% sales tax

an individual making 200K a year pays 23% sales tax


who has the most disposable income after they buy the necessities it takes to live ?

fair?

Please understand the plan before poo-pooing it out of hand, you missed the whole prebate provision.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Until you have a basic understanding of the FairTax, CBJ7, there is no point in discussing it with you. Go to FairTax.org and learn something.

read it

understand it

you dont want to comment about a fair tax redistributing wealth, fine with me ...


a middle or lower class family has the proensity to SPEND more of their income and have LESS disposable income than someone that makes $250K a year and bascally has all they need, in most cases the person making 250K will INVEST their disposable income and GROW their wealth ...

if you cant see the difference its not my ffault ...

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by CJ7

but youre not willing to raise the SS tax 1% and solve the entire shortfall .. you would rather create MORE government even though you insist on having LESS government in your life ... got it.

1% would mean a working family making 40K would see an increase of 9$ a week .. I suppose youre against people paying for their SS too, since youre against everyone else paying for their slack ..

now go hide in the closet and ask yourself how in the hell did Obama get reelected ...

More government? You still aren't getting it. The entire IRS would be eliminated, in addition you would bring home more money in your paycheck...no federal income tax withholding.

On top of that, raise the SS withholding 1%. I got no problem with that. These are two separate issues.