all the garbage

[dog soldier 4]

I agree with DTorchia's post #43. I don't actively participate in posting due to lack of skills with computers. but I will try, in looking at other communities coed I see more fun and real info. not as much in the way attacks. I do like when the ladies comment and flirt. had in not been for some of posts of a couple of ladies I would have not seen them. (I am sure the English majors will comment)

[DRorchia]

Points well made davidsmith0123!

[Texasquest]

David Smith..you are soo right ..THis should be about Opinions and Info..NOT PUBLIC BASHING.If the few that Love to Bash and personally attack others would go away it would indeed be such a place.We can only hope but I am not holding my Breath..

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by davidsmith0123

(BTW, for any long-time hobbyists, I presume that the advent of these boards in late 1990s (?) has lessened the importance of agencies? Pre-internet, agencies provided a reputation-building function that is now better accomplished by these boards. Agencies built a reputation for their stable of providers, whereas these boards allow a provider to built an individual-specific reputation. Please PM any thoughts on this.)

Although SHMBs have certainly increased the opportunities for Independents as well as made it safer for all there are many solid agencies that regularly take advantage of the marketing opportunities offered here.

Austin, unfortunately, lacks quality agencies which serve another great service to a community in helping keep pricing down.

[Texasquest]

Originally Posted by Whispers

Although SHMBs have certainly increased the opportunities for Independents as well as made it safer for all there are many solid agencies that regularly take advantage of the marketing opportunities offered here.

Austin, unfortunately, lacks quality agencies which serve another great service to a community in helping keep pricing down.

hmmm Forcing Pricing DOwn is good for the community? As a Business owner I disagree..Picing is only a small part of it..VALUE is what you should be concerned with NOT PRICE..Cheaper is not always Better...Neither is over inflated Value...in a Free Market system Pricing usually takes care of itself..people will sooner or later figure out the lowest price may be the most costly..

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Texasquest

hmmm Forcing Pricing DOwn is good for the community? As a Business owner I disagree..Picing is only a small part of it..VALUE is what you should be concerned with NOT PRICE..Cheaper is not always Better...Neither is over inflated Value...in a Free Market system Pricing usually takes care of itself..people will sooner or later figure out the lowest price may be the most costly..

With every post you sound less like a hobbyist and more like a provider..... I do believe some of those words... almost word for word have come off a providers keyboard here..... time for some research.... Especially more like one that has a habit of spinning......

My comment was "helping keep pricing down" not FORCING Pricing Down......

Solid well run agencies with variety also help Indies develop better TCB in the long run because when a guy doesn't have to wait a week or two to have references checked and get laid in a couple of hours Indies miss opportunities..... So it gets them to step their game up as well...


But I do agree that VALUE is most important.... Hence my personal preference for strippers and the fact that they value their time by the "shift' (i.e. day or night) rather than by the hour.... and they are much more prone to do lunches, dinners or drinks getting to know you as part of getting to that point where your going to fuck.....

$200 gets you 2-3 hours with the right strippers and $300 tends to get you afternoons or evenings...... far more variety and pops then from the Independent or Agency side of the fence.... $500 usually gets you a rockin experience with a 10 that you can seldom find around here.... and when you do it's usually at $350-$500 an hour....

[davidsmith0123]

I have no problem with competition in general, and I am all for more competition in the hobby. Keeps quality up and/or prices down. Or better, keeps price per unit of quality down. (And no, I cannot actually define a unit of quality in this context, but to paraphrase the pornography quote, I know it when I experience it.)

I'll just say that personally I almost always like lower prices (if quality stays constant) --unless it is the price of *my* services. That said, I have few complaints about the Austin hobby.

Still, there is so much complaining about prices on this board. It seems to be continually in the background and sometimes in the foreground of so many discussions.

Is it the case that Austin has higher prices for providers, quality constant, than other cities? (And again, I know, 'quality' is an impossible judgement call). If so, what explains that? Is labor in general more highly compensated in Austin than the comparison cities, so that other service providers are also more highly compensated in Austin? Put differently, is the ratio of provider prices to other service provider prices the same in Austin and the comparison cities?

Related to the above, are living expenses higher in Austin than the comparison cities? Are rents higher?

Basically, I am looking for evidence to suppor the claim, and reasons behind the claim, that provider services are more costly in Austin than in some set of comparison cities.

If it is not the overall labor market, is there some barriers to entry that can explain the differential? Otherwise higher prices in Austin should eventually draw in new providers from the local population and from other areas and move to more equalized prices across cities.

Possibly prices are higher in Austin but so is quality. It may be that the Austin area has a relatively large number of discerning gentlemen who are willing and able to pay for higher quality, and this demand has led to a somewhat higher average market price. However, in the hobby market with so much variety among providers and clients, you would think there could be many matches along the various dimensions of price and quality, so the complaints are still a bit troubling. Still, the overall or average market price might be higher in Austin if there was higher demand at one end of the scale.

Are the higher prices in Austin limited to companions/courtesans/escorts? Are SW prices higher in Austin? Are prices for lapdances and other such activities higher in Austin? Is so the explanation lies in something about the entire hobby in Austin. If not, what is it about the Austin companion market?

I am quite curious about the claim, the evidence, and possible explanations.

[davidsmith0123]

I'm reading my last post and want to add, quickly, that there are many dimensions of quality, and quality is in the eye of the beholder. High prices do not imply high quality in the eyes of all clients, and low prices do not imply low quality in the eyes of all clients. I certainly do not think that a provider charging higher prices is necessarily higher quality in my eyes, not the converse. There is an interesting matching process to all this.

[Texasquest]

Absolutely Quality is definantly in the Eye of the Beholder..Quality may or may not Reflect the Actual Price...All depends on the Business offering the product.They will set their price on what kind of ROI they need to operate.Some will increase Value and decrease Price..some will decrease Price and Quality..That is a decision they need to make and live with..The purchaser needs to figure out if the Value is worth it to him for the price .If not he needs to look elsewhere..This is where doing your Homework will pay great divedends.OR you can sit around and Bitch about it till your Blue in the FACE..If someone is out of line with their Prices/quality then the business itself will take care of it IE they wont have any Business.....That tends to make them ReAccess their decisions on pricing.and adjust so as to stay competitive in the Market Place.

[Sensual Sophia]

Originally Posted by davidsmith0123

Is it the case that Austin has higher prices for providers, quality constant, than other cities? (And again, I know, 'quality' is an impossible judgement call). If so, what explains that? Is labor in general more highly compensated in Austin than the comparison cities, so that other service providers are also more highly compensated in Austin? Put differently, is the ratio of provider prices to other service provider prices the same in Austin and the comparison cities?

Related to the above, are living expenses higher in Austin than the comparison cities? Are rents higher?

Basically, I am looking for evidence to suppor the claim, and reasons behind the claim, that provider services are more costly in Austin than in some set of comparison cities.

If it is not the overall labor market, is there some barriers to entry that can explain the differential? Otherwise higher prices in Austin should eventually draw in new providers from the local population and from other areas and move to more equalized prices across cities.

Possibly prices are higher in Austin but so is quality. It may be that the Austin area has a relatively large number of discerning gentlemen who are willing and able to pay for higher quality, and this demand has led to a somewhat higher average market price. However, in the hobby market with so much variety among providers and clients, you would think there could be many matches along the various dimensions of price and quality, so the complaints are still a bit troubling. Still, the overall or average market price might be higher in Austin if there was higher demand at one end of the scale.

Are the higher prices in Austin limited to companions/courtesans/escorts? Are SW prices higher in Austin? Are prices for lapdances and other such activities higher in Austin? Is so the explanation lies in something about the entire hobby in Austin. If not, what is it about the Austin companion market?

I am quite curious about the claim, the evidence, and possible explanations.

This has been discussed over and over again... here is a good thread on the topic: http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=29478

Austin is the highest priced large city in Texas. But West Texas and the Panhandle have very little options so men generally are willing to pay a lot more. Houston and Dallas, being large cities, have a wider variety of prices going down to very low priced massage parlors all the way up to High Dollar Hotties. But Dallas and San Antonio have the cheapest prices overall on average -- especially for indies.

In my observations from looking at pricing in various parts of the country, cities with excellent economies and high costs of living have pricier providers. This should be expected because a good economy means more demand for escort services and fewer escorts in supply. (most start escorting out of financial desperation)

Austin has always had one of the best economies in the nation our lead has been expanded due to the recession. The recession didn't hit us nearly as hard as most places and we are ranked #1 on recession recovery: http://www.statesman.com/business/re...y-1086226.html

[Whispers]

That report which came out at the end of November was based on a lot of data accumulated early in the year....

Banks and even the US Govet were sitting on a lot of inventory termed "Shadow Inventory" in the Real Estate Market which is where Austin gets a lot of it's plusses....

Since Mid November the Number of available Foreclosure Properties in areas surrounding Austin has almost quadrupled and as these properties are being sold off they are dragging Appraisals down in Leander, Cedar Park, Georgetown, Round Rock, Pflugerville, Manor Austins Colony, Del Valle, Kyle and Buda..... Even more out in Taylor, Elgin and Bastrop.

Foreclosure Inventory in Austin proper has doubled.

$45K for a 2/2? Yup..... $60K-$80K for 3/2s within 15 minutes of downtown?... Yup...

A lot of Net worth in and around Austin is over valued based on Real Estate Holdings and those values will be reset over the coming 3 years....

Talk to any club Manager and the number of girls entering the club business is increasing.... 30/40yo housewives are picking up their old cocktail trays and returning to waitressing for cash....

The number of Players available in the clubs, IMO has tripled.... and prices have dropped easily by 30%

That's a realistic view of areas of the economy that I'm involved with every day.

We don't always get accurate stories in Reviews but some girls are doing multi hours and over nights at times for what used to be their hourly rates.....

Austin tends to lag the country in a variety of things.... I would bet that most of 2011 will be on par with the last quarter of 2010 if not a little worse....

[davidsmith0123]

Sophia,

Ok, thanks. I understand the supply and demand arguement, and Austin must have a relatively lower supply or higher demand to generate a higher market price. Your explanation that it is the better Austin economy is compelling, explaining both demand and suppy. But people can and do move. For example, why don't providers in Dallas move to Austin, increasing the Austin supply and equalizing price? Perhaps the differences in price are not that much in terms of annual income, and/or the cost of living is higher in Austin, so that the move is not that attractive when you consider the full cost? Or maybe the greater amenities and attactiveness of Dallas relative to Austin makes up for the lower income??? (Just kidding, everyone. Really!)

I still wonder if the perception of higher prices is 'real' or if it masks something else that is going on. Perhaps both cities have the same distribution of prices but there is a higher volume at relatively high prices in Austin relative the volume at relatively high prices in Dallas. This could also be the economy, of course. Then the Austin 'average' price will appear higher. I guess I am asking if there are providers in every range. In part I am trying to understand the griping about price in Austin.

These questions are always hard to address, since it is a question of price per unit of delivered service, and in this case quality of service is difficult to define or measure. The vector of amenities (a better word than quality) that accompany the price is so variable and differs in various combinations across providers.

Do you know providers who have moved AUS - > DAL, or DAL -> AUS, and found they could achieve same volume at higher prices in Austin? That would seem to be the best 'all else equal' experiment.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by davidsmith0123

I still wonder if the perception of higher prices is 'real' or if it masks something else that is going on.

There are those that want you to accept that you have to pay more....

You'll never learn the truth here... You need to contribute, earn trust and network before you will see......

Quick Question.... Which $300 an hour Provider always too busy and in demand to run local ads regularly sees repeat clients for $100 an hour?....

Which $250 an hour provider has a 120 minutes to an hour clock at the moment?

Which $300 an hour provider if booked for a 11PM/12AM appointment will probably wake up in your bed the next morning.....

You don't find these stories in the CoEd mix.....

You get propaganda....

[Rand Al'Thor]

Originally Posted by davidsmith0123

Yes, this is a business, and clients spend thousands of dollars on providers. It is also true that providers spend thousands of hours on clients. There are two sides to every transaction. I doubt Dell and its suppliers get into a public bashing of each other, or even of each other's business practices. I further doubt Dell and its potential suppliers publicly bash each other -- just not good for business.

I think a more apt comparison would be Dell and its customers as opposed to their suppliers. None of us are involved in assembling, changing or reselling products or services in the hobby, as far as I know, nor is this a relationship between oligopolies. Customers complain about Dell (or any other compnay) all the time. When they cannot get satisfaction, they do often feel that public bashing is their only recourse - ihatedell.net, ihatedell.org, as well as many review sites. For a company like Dell to publicly bash its customers would be bad practice – as Steve Jobs saying that Apple’s customers were using(holding) the iphone wrong in response to the antenna problem.

That said, certainly both sides of a business transaction have some right to criticize the other side. It does seem to me that a majority of what I read as criticism is directed at providers (usually as a group, not individuals) and not clients, but this is just an impression. I have no statistics on this issue, and no desire to compile them.

This is a review site, one of the purpose of the site is for us to evaluate or critique the experience of engaging a provider. As the rules of the review section only allow reviews when a session has taken place, CoEd and Men’s Lounge are the next logical places for us to share information about our experiences when a session has not taken place. Bad TCB, bad attitude, NCNS, security issues, outdated or misleading pictures are some of the issues that could be brought up. As with most consumer feedback, there will be more negative than positive – that’s human nature. So you could see the negative feedback and exchange of negative information as a natural extension of the review function.

Information sharing is different from criticism. Eccie and boards like this serve an important information-sharing role that helps the client/provider market function more efficiently. Obviously this is not a market where contracts are legally enforced. The sharing of information on Eccie and other boards helps match clients and providers, and helps providers (and to some extent clients) establish reputations that are often quite valuable. The desire to maintain said reputations 'encourages' providers (and clients) to deliver as 'promised'. This sharing of information takes place in the reviews, and in the PR or LR, and it is by nature personal, as reputations are personal. Some of that information shared will be judged as criticism by one party or the other. So be it.

Agreed about reputation, though I think if we’re talking about the reputation of a provider, then it should be understood that it is the reputation of the business – we’re not talking about if she’s a bad mother, writes bad checks, or treats her friends badly. As for sharing information, if someone wants to reach the widest audience, it would be posted in CoEd rather than ML so that those without PA could see it. Could there be some element of vengeance involved? You bet. They wouldn’t be giving bad feedback in the first place unless they were upset, frustrated or angry so some of the criticism may be to negatively affect the provider’s business. This is also the nature of a dissatisfied customer.

(BTW, for any long-time hobbyists, I presume that the advent of these boards in late 1990s (?) has lessened the importance of agencies? Pre-internet, agencies provided a reputation-building function that is now better accomplished by these boards. Agencies built a reputation for their stable of providers, whereas these boards allow a provider to built an individual-specific reputation. Please PM any thoughts on this.)

Unlike the reviews, the LR, or the PR, the Coed board seems designed for an exchange of views on matters other than personal reputation items, although clearly there will be not sharp line. I agree with Dtorchia and Texasquest, that this should be fun, a place to read opinions on hobby related issues, to arrange social events if that is your thing, etc. It just seems to me that so often threads degenerate into a dog and cat fight.

I’m not sure what you mean when you say that agencies provided a reputation building function. If you mean the reputation of the agency itself (the stable), that reputation would depend on people exchanging information, just as an independent building her reputation would need people to exchange information. If you mean the agency giving you recommendations, that would depend on what kind of relationship you have with the management. I think agencies still have a place in the hobby in the needs they can serve. An agency that can recruit and develop consistent talent and services is a good alternative to limited menus and one-pop service of MPs for those looking for last minute appointments.

[Rand Al'Thor]

Originally Posted by davidsmith0123

Sophia,

Ok, thanks. I understand the supply and demand arguement, and Austin must have a relatively lower supply or higher demand to generate a higher market price. Your explanation that it is the better Austin economy is compelling, explaining both demand and suppy.

Sophia explained the economic impact on supply and demand side well, assuming that Austin economy is indeed that much better than Dallas, Houston and San Antonio.

There's also the social pressures that affect supply and demand. A woman in a smaller city may feel that the risk of being recognized or outed is greater than for a woman in a larger city. I know many sugar babies that do not see men in their (small) town. I know there are providers who also do not see clients in their home town (though I won't claim to know that risk of recognition or being outed is the reason for this). This is even more so if she is of an ethnicity that has a tightly knit community within that city. Being part of a small community makes the city seem even smaller, and risk of being recognized greater. Example of this would be the number of Asian providers in Austin vs Dallas or Houston. Austin has a much smaller number of Asians, and each nationality tends to have a very small community that tends to reduce the degrees of separation between each member. Houston and Dallas, by sheer number and distance within the city, tend to have a number of such communities within each nationality. You can see this in the stripper migration as well. While a woman from San Marcos will be OK with waiting tables at a strip club in south Austin, if and when she decides to take the plunge and start dancing, she will likely drive an extra 30-40 minutes across town to north Austin to avoid recognition.



For a woman contemplating this profession, the risk of being exposed seems to be a major factor. A few I have spoken to have come down to making a choice between providing full time or being UTR or a sugar baby with a few regulars that tend to guarantee a more modest income.

But people can and do move. For example, why don't providers in Dallas move to Austin, increasing the Austin supply and equalizing price? Perhaps the differences in price are not that much in terms of annual income, and/or the cost of living is higher in Austin, so that the move is not that attractive when you consider the full cost? Or maybe the greater amenities and attactiveness of Dallas relative to Austin makes up for the lower income??? (Just kidding, everyone. Really!)

While many of us see moving from one city to another as an easy decision, there are many that do not for many reasons. Some just don’t want to move away from the comfort of the city they have grown up in. Some have family and friends they are not willing to leave behind. Some have legal reasons that anchor them to the city or county.


This topic involves more than just economics. Demographics, geographic layout of the city, social structure, and culture of the city, just to mention a few from the top of my head, factor into understanding supply and demand.

I still wonder if the perception of higher prices is 'real' or if it masks something else that is going on. Perhaps both cities have the same distribution of prices but there is a higher volume at relatively high prices in Austin relative the volume at relatively high prices in Dallas. This could also be the economy, of course. Then the Austin 'average' price will appear higher. I guess I am asking if there are providers in every range. In part I am trying to understand the griping about price in Austin.

This would be true if the price perception was based on the average dollar value per transaction. I don’t know of anyone that is even capable of keeping that tally – I just don’t see providers of all price segments reporting in to a single entity with their weekly or monthly number of appointments and income. What is more likely the source of this perception is simply looking on places like ECCIE showcases (and reviews under each section) and P411 and counting how many providers are available at what price point and what menu and looks are offered at that price point.

These questions are always hard to address, since it is a question of price per unit of delivered service, and in this case quality of service is difficult to define or measure. The vector of amenities (a better word than quality) that accompany the price is so variable and differs in various combinations across providers.

Do you know providers who have moved AUS - > DAL, or DAL -> AUS, and found they could achieve same volume at higher prices in Austin? That would seem to be the best 'all else equal' experiment.

I’m not sure that anyone would be willing to make that kind of disclosure, but an alternative would be to look at traveling providers. While most do raise rates when they’re traveling, you could compare a Dallas provider’s traveling rates in Houston vs. Austin or a Houston provider’s rates in Austin vs. Dallas.