P411 - not sure what to think...

[Secret_Amore]

i know this blog/notification was post marked of Jan of this year but did anyone else know about these concerns...?

http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2...g-in-the-milk/

the former provider blogger The Honest Courtesan she is questioning the security or compromisation of P411. I'm not sure what to think, i mean months have past and we have survived stings before...so maybe there's no cause for doubt.

idk, what do you all think about the information she is presenting?

[ztonk]

P411 is based in Canada and is outside the jurisdiction of the US law enforcement agencies and the FBI. Prostitution is legal in Canada. There are certain parties who, every so often, start up a campaign trying to smear and discredit Gina and P411... rumors of them working with LE, providing provider/client information, etc. I think it's all unfounded nonsense.

ztonk

[stevejones1969]

Bunch of crap. The best thing that you can take away from this is.....visit Canada, where it is legal.

[monkey man]

Bloggers are worthless individuals with no lives, that try to sound like they know what they are talking about. Those who know do, those that don't talk about it. I've been on p411 3 years and have seen this same crap several times. Nothing new here.
The Not So Honest Courtesan has an AGENDA.

[Toyz]

Originally Posted by stevejones1969

Bunch of crap. The best thing that you can take away from this is.....visit Canada, where it is legal.

Seems like this might have something to do with P411 girls leaving.

[GneissGuy]

Don't trust P411. Don't trust eccie. Don't trust Google or Yahoo.

Everyone can get hacked, even big guys like Google or Yahoo. Any of the small potatoes like P411 or eccie can be compromised by the government goons with guns and lawyers. Even Google and Yahoo will fold if Big Brother comes along.

Even if they don't get hacked or strongarmed, it's not that hard for the bad guys, government or private, to compromise a userid on a legitimate board. You can strongarm or hack an individual user. You can build up a good reputation via various means with some work.

P411, eccie, etc. are still useful. It's a barrier to the bad guys. If there's some grand Big Brother compromise of either of these boards, it will be found out and be over before long. You're still probably at a lot less risk than you would be without these resources.

Let's be realistic, too. Even if there is some sort of big organized government harassment operation, it doesn't get too many people at once.

Don't be too sure about your "screening" schemes, either. The really bad guys know how to get around that, too.

Be careful. Realize there are risks. Minimize the risks, but realize that nothing you do is a magic talisman that protects you against everything.

Don't be like the ladies who think that some disclaimer on their web site that "this is not an offer of prostitution" protects you. Or that asking the guy "are you a cop?" does anything.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by GneissGuy

Don't trust P411. Don't trust eccie. Don't trust Google or Yahoo.

Everyone can get hacked, even big guys like Google or Yahoo. Any of the small potatoes like P411 or eccie can be compromised by the government goons with guns and lawyers. Even Google and Yahoo will fold if Big Brother comes along.

Even if they don't get hacked or strong armed, it's not that hard for the bad guys, government or private, to compromise a user-id on a legitimate board. You can strong arm or hack an individual user. You can build up a good reputation via various means with some work.

P411, eccie, etc. are still useful. It's a barrier to the bad guys. If there's some grand Big Brother compromise of either of these boards, it will be found out and be over before long. You're still probably at a lot less risk than you would be without these resources.

Let's be realistic, too. Even if there is some sort of big organized government harassment operation, it doesn't get too many people at once.

Don't be too sure about your "screening" schemes, either. The really bad guys know how to get around that, too.

Be careful. Realize there are risks. Minimize the risks, but realize that nothing you do is a magic talisman that protects you against everything.

Don't be like the ladies who think that some disclaimer on their web site that "this is not an offer of prostitution" protects you. Or that asking the guy "are you a cop?" does anything.

If you are turning tricks and they want you they will get you regardless of your belief in these services.

I am always amazed that so many people put so much faith in these "services" and think so little of the Police, FBI or others to navigate and compromise those services in order to build cases.

Organized crime, terrorists and Drug Cartels throw millions of dollars at their security issues and LE infiltrates them regularly.

Yet people think some chick in Canada has their backs and operate brazenly open in other manners feeling immune.

No matter what is or is not legal in Canada, facilitating a crime in the United States will get some cooperation from the Canadian Government when wanted.

Although it is far easier to simpler for them to probably just dummy up the information and join the services and build false identities.

[Centaur]

Originally Posted by GneissGuy

Even Google and Yahoo will fold if Big Brother comes along.

More like roll out the red carpet and install an automated system to serve your ass on a silver platter to any inquiring smokey with a rubber stamp from the FISA "court". But yeah, you're right.

Originally Posted by Whispers

I am always amazed that so many people put so much faith in these "services" and think so little of the Police, FBI or others to navigate and compromise those services in order to build cases.

That or they see it as a necessary risk and try not to worry about it.

Originally Posted by Whispers

Organized crime, terrorists and Drug Cartels throw millions of dollars at their security issues and LE infiltrates them regularly.

Just to play devil's advocate here, department budgets for those things are much bigger. And yes, a lot of budget gets used for whatever the department likes - one cop shop spent DHS funding on snowcone machines (security theater never tasted so sweet) - but department heads are gonna aim for career building busts and nailing people for solicitation isn't the greatest political capital, probably because so many dudes partake of the world's oldest profession. So yes, if they're willing to put the manpower on it, they'll nail you. But the impetus to go after real criminals is somewhat higher in general.

Originally Posted by Whispers

Although it is far easier to simpler for them to probably just dummy up the information and join the services and build false identities.

[GneissGuy]

Just to be clear.

P411 is a good thing. Eccie is a good thing. They raise the barrier to bad guys. Just realize it's not a bulletproof wall. Most of the time, the bad guys will go after the low hanging fruit.

You also have to use the tools the right way.

It's like putting a good lock on your front door. It helps, but there are weaknesses with every system. It's not practical for most of us to live in an impenetrable bank vault.

[Centaur]

Originally Posted by GneissGuy

It's like putting a good lock on your front door. It helps, but there are weaknesses with every system. It's not practical for most of us to live in an impenetrable bank vault.

Yet lots if folks leave their rear patio door unlocked. A lock's only as secure as the person responsible for locking it.

[Miss Valentina]

Maggie McNeil, The Honest Courtesan is a top activist and champion in the field of sex worker's rights along with Melissa Gira Grant, Dr. Laura Agustin and a few other laudable names She is also a top-notch writer, blogger, and journalist with superior reporting standards. I have never known her to have an agenda other than exposing hypocrisies and injustices within the industry.

You will note that in this particular column, she simply relays a story about p411 a sex worker has forwarded to her. I believe she would be loathe to level an accusation against p411 herself because having journalistic integrity it's unlikely she would do so without proof. Especially if that accusation had the potential to lead to a libel case. The woman is no dummy

I can say that these accusations have been discussed for years, but recently there has been a huge spike of conversation in the hooker-sphere about p411 perhaps compromising providers and hobbyists to the FBI. They may have played a role in the recent country-wide FBI "trafficking" sting, and there is some rather compelling evidence for this. But if they did or did not is not of any consequence to me personally. I understand there are very real and inherent risks in this business. I would never expect Gina to protect me if being pressed by so powerful an agency.

I don't think you have much to worry about than your day to day business with the gentlemen here.

[GinaXXX]

I remove people from P411 if they show me signs that they are unstable.

Extreme paranoia and delusional thought processes are a couple of those "signs" I look for, and often those people are very angry they've been removed from the site because of their attempt to warn us that the aliens are beaming into our thoughts and transmitting them to the FBI.

Once I remove them, these people almost always then become convinced that their removal from P411 means that I'm working with the aliens, when that is not the reality. The reality is that they are removed because I'm simply tired of talking them down off the ledge, and debating the validity of their "information" with them. This type of person then spends all of their waking moments trying to spread the word about how dangerous I am.

This has happened over and over again, and I can tell you it's not fun for me. I can also tell you it's not true. P411 operates as a completely legal business, and there is no crime in being a member of P411. I've also been in this industry for over 30 years, I know where my loyalty lies. I've spent many nights in jail when I was working as an escort, and I've even done a little time in prison (not industry related). I'm not afraid of LE or the justice system, having been there, done that, and I can afford very good legal representation should it ever be necessary.

P411 is only intended to be used as one tool in the verification process. We encourage you to do as much additional screening and research as you feel is necessary, to keep yourself safe. But I can also tell you that I am here, working every single day, trying to keep the P411 network as free from problems as is humanly possible.

Just because we've all made the decision to partake in the hobby, doesn't mean that we shouldn't be able to have some options to keep ourselves safer. Back in the day when I was a provider, I didn't have any of these options, and I'm very proud to be able to offer some support to the community.

I'm always available via email, if anyone has any specific questions or concerns they would like me to address. But no "crazy talk", please!

Always,
Gina

[onei]

Originally Posted by Centaur

Yet lots if folks leave their rear patio door unlocked. A lock's only as secure as the person responsible for locking it.

I've always said, "Locks are intended to keep honest people out." In this case, "Passwords, encrypted emails, google voice numbers, etc, are designed to keep those who don't really give a rats ass out."

[Miss Valentina]

Originally Posted by GinaXXX

I remove people from P411 if they show me signs that they are unstable.

Extreme paranoia and delusional thought processes are a couple of those "signs" I look for, and often those people are very angry they've been removed from the site because of their attempt to warn us that the aliens are beaming into our thoughts and transmitting them to the FBI.

Once I remove them, these people almost always then become convinced that their removal from P411 means that I'm working with the aliens, when that is not the reality. The reality is that they are removed because I'm simply tired of talking them down off the ledge, and debating the validity of their "information" with them. This type of person then spends all of their waking moments trying to spread the word about how dangerous I am.

This has happened over and over again, and I can tell you it's not fun for me. I can also tell you it's not true. P411 operates as a completely legal business, and there is no crime in being a member of P411. I've also been in this industry for over 30 years, I know where my loyalty lies. I've spent many nights in jail when I was working as an escort, and I've even done a little time in prison (not industry related). I'm not afraid of LE or the justice system, having been there, done that, and I can afford very good legal representation should it ever be necessary.

P411 is only intended to be used as one tool in the verification process. We encourage you to do as much additional screening and research as you feel is necessary, to keep yourself safe. But I can also tell you that I am here, working every single day, trying to keep the P411 network as free from problems as is humanly possible.

Just because we've all made the decision to partake in the hobby, doesn't mean that we shouldn't be able to have some options to keep ourselves safer. Back in the day when I was a provider, I didn't have any of these options, and I'm very proud to be able to offer some support to the community.

I'm always available via email, if anyone has any specific questions or concerns they would like me to address. But no "crazy talk", please!

Always,
Gina

Excellent to hear from you Gina. I really appreciate your input and point of view. Not to get into too much detail but I keep a very firm finger on the pulse of this industry, surely what you've read here is no surprise to you. It must get wearisome fielding accusations and all the drama that is simply intrinsic to this business anyway. Personally, I find it terribly silly, and very ill advised indeed that any provider or hobbyist would place the responsibility of their industry lives on you or your site. When I have read some of the accusations, some very fascinating indeed, even if they were proven to be true, I'm not certain how that really makes any difference. As participants the onus is on us to understand the risks weigh the consequences and operate within those boundaries or not participate at all. I believe your site does the best that could be expected to help people navigate this industry. It's just one rather good tool in what should be an quiver of protective measures. Why anyone would expect more is a bit beyond my comprehension.

[GinaXXX]

surely what you've read here is no surprise to you.

Yes, if you read through the comments on that blog, you'll see that I responded a few times (unless those comments have since been deleted).

Always,
Gina