"If This Be Treason . . ."

[ICU 812]

“If This Be Treason, Then Make The most Of It!!”
Patrick Henry

The actions of many individuals during the events of January 6th, 2020 at the nation’s Capital are considered by many to be treasonous insurrection. Whether or not I myself agree with that is beside the point of this discussion. The national consensus and the finding s of the Federal court system has for many, been ” insurrection” and “treason”.

Here we are a few years later and protests often focus on the situation of Palestinians in the so-called West Bank and Gaza. These protests and demonstrations regularly go beyond calling for better conditions for Palestinians or their rights to self-determination. Often the chanting includes calls for the elimination of Israel as a nation and the extermination of Jews as a people. Here in the United States, this call for the eradication of Israel and the Jewish people is supplemented with loud chanting of “Death To America”, and references to the USA as “The Great Sten.”

The phrase, “Death o America” cannot be interpreted in any other way than a call for the violent overthrow of the government. They are not proposing to amend the Constitution after all.The overthrow of any government, violent or “mostly peaceful” is a Coup. . Any citizen calling for the overthrow of their government is committing treason by any definition of the word. Insurrection is another applicable word for these sentiments.

These Death to America demonstrators and protest organizers should be pursued with the same legal vigor as have those who entered the nation’s Capital on January 6th of 2020.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

“If This Be Treason, Then Make The most Of It!!”
Patrick Henry

The actions of many individuals during the events of January 6th, 2020 at the nation’s Capital are considered by many to be treasonous insurrection. Whether or not I myself agree with that is beside the point of this discussion. The national consensus and the finding s of the Federal court system has for many, been ” insurrection” and “treason”.

Here we are a few years later and protests often focus on the situation of Palestinians in the so-called West Bank and Gaza. These protests and demonstrations regularly go beyond calling for better conditions for Palestinians or their rights to self-determination. Often the chanting includes calls for the elimination of Israel as a nation and the extermination of Jews as a people. Here in the United States, this call for the eradication of Israel and the Jewish people is supplemented with loud chanting of “Death To America”, and references to the USA as “The Great Sten.”

The phrase, “Death o America” cannot be interpreted in any other way than a call for the violent overthrow of the government. They are not proposing to amend the Constitution after all.The overthrow of any government, violent or “mostly peaceful” is a Coup. . Any citizen calling for the overthrow of their government is committing treason by any definition of the word. Insurrection is another applicable word for these sentiments.

These Death to America demonstrators and protest organizers should be pursued with the same legal vigor as have those who entered the nation’s Capital on January 6th of 2020.

I agree with you that chanting "death to America" is obscene but what laws were broken? On January 6, 2021 (not 2020) laws were broken by anyone who entered the Capitol building. In my opinion anyone who simply entered the Capitol on that day without harming anyone or anything should not face criminal charges. People shouting to hang Mike Pence should not be charged. And protesters yesterday should not be charged by chanting anti-American epithets.

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

I agree with you that chanting "death to America" is obscene but what laws were broken? On January 6, 2021 (not 2020) laws were broken by anyone who entered the Capitol building. In my opinion anyone who simply entered the Capitol on that day without harming anyone or anything should not face criminal charges. People shouting to hang Mike Pence should not be charged. And protesters yesterday should not be charged by chanting anti-American epithets.

I think if you weren't supposed to be INSIDE the capital and it's posted as such, you should be subject to trespass charges etc. Generally I don't think thats the more egregious of the crimes, but interrupting a public proceeding should definitely have a consequence.

You cannot go running in the capital just cause you don't like the topic or don't agree with it. IT's call representation for a reason.

Call your representative to take a stand if you don't agree with the process. I would also say threatening ANY public official needs to have a penalty. Saying you want to shoot, kill, hang etc. is a definitive threat. What if Sirhan-Sirhan announced that prior to shooting ppl? What if John Wilkes Booth did? What would protect any president/ VP, or other government official from threats- perceived vs. realized, from harm??

When people tell you who they are, and what they intend to do- believe them.

However- the freedom of speech that doesnt' point to a specific person or action towards the same is protected speech of protest.
I hate_____> is totally fair.

I want to shoot, hang or kill_____ is not.

Not that hard to distinguish between those two.

Those who take speech from the narrative- and suggest specific physical action, or threats of the same, are the ones that need to be observed, and once they threaten a individual or of public office- sorry but you get to go to jail- pay fines and find out that's not how this country works. Threatening ppl with Harm has a consequence.

[Levianon17]

I often wonder about that girl Ashli Babbitt who was shot and killed by a Capital Security Officer. She was unarmed not really posing a threat yet her death was justified. If he was a street Cop and shot an unarmed person crawling through a window he would have been charged with murder.

[CreatedInSpace]

She was a Trump supporter. To today’s political left, that alone is justification.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by CreatedInSpace

She was a Trump supporter. To today’s political left, that alone is justification.

Apparently so. If Trump wins in November do his supporters have to wear eyes in the back of their head because of the sore losers on the Left?

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

I often wonder about that girl Ashli Babbitt who was shot and killed by a Capital Security Officer. She was unarmed not really posing a threat yet her death was justified. If he was a street Cop and shot an unarmed person crawling through a window he would have been charged with murder.

She was attempting to climb through a shattered window next to a barricaded door with a mob of rioters behind her. The police officer who shot her was required by law to protect the capitol the members and their staff.

Fully justified and you are spreading misinformation when you say otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

I think if you weren't supposed to be INSIDE the capital and it's posted as such, you should be subject to trespass charges etc. Generally I don't think thats the more egregious of the crimes, but interrupting a public proceeding should definitely have a consequence.

You cannot go running in the capital just cause you don't like the topic or don't agree with it. IT's call representation for a reason.

Call your representative to take a stand if you don't agree with the process. I would also say threatening ANY public official needs to have a penalty. Saying you want to shoot, kill, hang etc. is a definitive threat. What if Sirhan-Sirhan announced that prior to shooting ppl? What if John Wilkes Booth did? What would protect any president/ VP, or other government official from threats- perceived vs. realized, from harm??

When people tell you who they are, and what they intend to do- believe them.

However- the freedom of speech that doesnt' point to a specific person or action towards the same is protected speech of protest.
I hate_____> is totally fair.

I want to shoot, hang or kill_____ is not.

Not that hard to distinguish between those two.

Those who take speech from the narrative- and suggest specific physical action, or threats of the same, are the ones that need to be observed, and once they threaten a individual or of public office- sorry but you get to go to jail- pay fines and find out that's not how this country works. Threatening ppl with Harm has a consequence.

Yes, anyone entering the Capitol Building on January 6, 2021 was breaking the law and commiting a crime but I believe common sense has to be applied in such instances.

And yes, threatening people with harm has a consequence but again common sense must be applied. Ask yourself whether or not a jury of one's peers would convict those that chanted "Hang Mike Pence" of a crime. I doub it.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

I often wonder about that girl Ashli Babbitt who was shot and killed by a Capital Security Officer. She was unarmed not really posing a threat yet her death was justified. If he was a street Cop and shot an unarmed person crawling through a window he would have been charged with murder.

I assume you own a gun. What if someone was entering your home illegally and you had little idea what their intentions were. What would you do?

Many security people were hurt that day by the rioters. They showed great restraint in my opinion. Babbitt was breaking the law and unfortunately suffered dire consequences. Maybe the officer over-reacted but she acted in a legal manner.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

She was attempting to climb through a shattered window next to a barricaded door with a mob of rioters behind her. The police officer who shot her was required by law to protect the capitol the members and their staff.

Fully justified and you are spreading misinformation when you say otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt

There was Armed uniformed officers in the hallway where she was they could have easily grabbed her and pulled her back through the window and arrested her.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

I assume you own a gun. What if someone was entering your home illegally and you had little idea what their intentions were. What would you do?

Many security people were hurt that day by the rioters. They showed great restraint in my opinion. Babbitt was breaking the law and unfortunately suffered dire consequences. Maybe the officer over-reacted but she acted in a legal manner.

No doubt, I would kill them. But she wasn't the only one on the premises, but she was only one who took a bullet. I find that whole scenario suspect.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

No doubt, I would kill them. But she wasn't the only one on the premises, but she was only one who took a bullet. I find that whole scenario suspect.

So you think they singled her out from among the other rioters.

I find that scenario goofy.

[CreatedInSpace]

Well she’s dead so he definitely singled her out, unless he’s a lousy shot and was shooting at someone else.

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

She was attempting to climb through a shattered window next to a barricaded door with a mob of rioters behind her. The police officer who shot her was required by law to protect the capitol the members and their staff.

Fully justified and you are spreading misinformation when you say otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt

If the cop were to shoot an unarmed person on the street, he would likely end up in prison.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

No doubt, I would kill them. But she wasn't the only one on the premises, but she was only one who took a bullet. I find that whole scenario suspect.

You have your time line incorrect. According to the investigation

As members of the mob continued to strike the glass doors, Ms. Babbitt attempted to climb through one of the doors where glass was broken out. An officer inside the Speaker’s Lobby fired one round from his service pistol, striking Ms. Babbitt in the left shoulder, causing her to fall back from the doorway and onto the floor. A USCP emergency response team, which had begun making its way into the hallway to try and subdue the mob, administered aid to Ms. Babbitt, who was transported to Washington Hospital Center, where she succumbed to her injuries.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/d...-ashli-babbitt

After being cleared of wrongdoing, Byrd made his name public in an August 2021 interview for NBC News. He said his name had been previously revealed in right-wing media and online forums and that he had received racist (Byrd is African-American) and violent threats, causing him to remain in hiding for several months. Looking back on his January 6 experience, Byrd said: "Once we barricaded the doors, we were essentially trapped where we were. There was no way to retreat. No other way to get out. If they get through that door, they're into the House chamber and upon the members of Congress." He stated that he had pulled the trigger as a "last resort" after the mob of protesters ignored his repeated orders to get back, and that he had no idea at that moment that Babbitt was unarmed and was a woman. Byrd commented: "I know that day I saved countless lives. I know members of Congress, as well as my fellow officers and staff, were in jeopardy and in serious danger. And that's my job".