Reality versus crazed, left wing rhetoric.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Someone attacked oil tankers in the Straits of Hormuz. The White House says it is Iran. Iran says don't blame them. Where do you stand? Going to join the ayatollahs and eventually blame Trump? Or will you stand with Trump, common sense, and your country?

The White House says that China is not to be trusted. They steal intellectual property, lie to the world,and commit unfair business practices. China says the US is exaggerating. Who do you side with?

Dumb ass rhetoric aside, do you support the US or tin pot dictators?

[oeb11]

Valid assessments of Iran and China - TRBC.

DPST's will support them over Trump any day.

Just their own version of Religion -Trump is the Devil.

LOL

[Chung Tran]

it's not an either or situation. the White House is not "America". if Trump says Iran did it, and 538 members of Congress say Saudi Arabia did, is Trump's view that of America?

I think Iran did it, same way I "knew" Osama Bin Laden masterminded 911, the moment I heard about the planes flying into the twin towers. of course, many "knew" Oklahoma City was a Muslim designed attack as well. but I feel confident, within one standard deviation, that Iran masterminded this oil ship attack, and that's good enough for me.


China? I think everyone knows they steal, plot, and disrupt.. for some reason nobody seemed to care much, for so long.. the idea that Trump does, seems to stick a few people the wrong way.. fuck them

[oeb11]

If 538 members of Congress say "this is the way it is" - is that the viewpoint of the American Public as a whole??
Maybe on a given issue - but as a Rule I sure as heck hope Not!.

Not gonna give that to the DPST's - much as they want it.

[Tiny]

Barleycorn, I'm not getting quotes to work correctly so am putting your text in bold.

It's not beyond the White House to purposely mislead the American public to help start or escalate a war, sometimes purposely and sometimes not. WMD in Iraq and the second Gulf of Tonkin incident (Vietnam) are examples. The first Gulf of Tonkin incident and the Battleship Maine (Spanish American war) may be.

Someone attacked oil tankers in the Straits of Hormuz. The White House says it is Iran. Iran says don't blame them. Where do you stand? Going to join the ayatollahs and eventually blame Trump? Or will you stand with Trump, common sense, and your country?

I believe the White House more than the Ayatollahs. I also believe Trump's instincts about keeping us out of wars are better than most politicians.

The White House says that China is not to be trusted. They steal intellectual property, lie to the world,and commit unfair business practices. China says the US is exaggerating.


I believe both your statements about the U.S. and China are correct. I trust the Chinese marginally more than Trump on their statements about trade and business practices.

[dilbert firestorm]

[dilbert firestorm]

2 limpet mines above the water line. one was damaged it where as the other did not explode.


so who put it there is a good question.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Barleycorn, I'm not getting quotes to work correctly so am putting your text in bold.

It's not beyond the White House to purposely mislead the American public to help start or escalate a war, sometimes purposely and sometimes not. WMD in Iraq and the second Gulf of Tonkin incident (Vietnam) are examples. The first Gulf of Tonkin incident and the Battleship Maine (Spanish American war) may be.

Someone attacked oil tankers in the Straits of Hormuz. The White House says it is Iran. Iran says don't blame them. Where do you stand? Going to join the ayatollahs and eventually blame Trump? Or will you stand with Trump, common sense, and your country?

I believe the White House more than the Ayatollahs. I also believe Trump's instincts about keeping us out of wars are better than most politicians.

The White House says that China is not to be trusted. They steal intellectual property, lie to the world,and commit unfair business practices. China says the US is exaggerating.


I believe both your statements about the U.S. and China are correct. I trust the Chinese marginally more than Trump on their statements about trade and business practices.

Well this is not the Gulf of Tonkin under LBJ operating in the dead of night, nor is it McKinley operating with just guesswork and William R Hearst. We have the technology.
The very fact that the notion is more than a notion on either point tells me you live in the wrong country you citizen of the world.

[Unique_Carpenter]

It was SPECTRE
We need 006&9/10ths

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

Well this is not the Gulf of Tonkin under LBJ operating in the dead of night, nor is it McKinley operating with just guesswork and William R Hearst. We have the technology.

The very fact that the notion is more than a notion on either point tells me you live in the wrong country you citizen of the world.

If you apply the reasoning in your second paragraph to all Americans, then maybe 40% to 60% of Americans live in the wrong country. If Democrats win the White House and the Senate, still perhaps 40% to 60% of Americans would belong in another country, they'd just be different Americans. I'm not knocking your logic. Unfortunately, this is a sign of the extremely partisan times we live in.

Polls of approval ratings for Trump's policies towards China, Iran and foreign affairs don't show whether Trump is right or wrong. They do show a lot of people disagree (and agree) with him:

https://www.pollingreport.com/trade.htm

https://www.pollingreport.com/iran.htm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.ac10040226c4

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1726/pr...-approval.aspx

I don't disagree with your post. The Iranians probably did attack the ships. And I don't particularly like or believe or fall in line with Democrat politicians and Trump, so maybe do live in the wrong country.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

It was SPECTRE
We need 006&9/10ths

are you getting smart?

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

it's not an either or situation. the White House is not "America". if Trump says Iran did it, and 538 members of Congress say Saudi Arabia did, is Trump's view that of America?

I think Iran did it, same way I "knew" Osama Bin Laden masterminded 911, the moment I heard about the planes flying into the twin towers. of course, many "knew" Oklahoma City was a Muslim designed attack as well. but I feel confident, within one standard deviation, that Iran masterminded this oil ship attack, and that's good enough for me.


China? I think everyone knows they steal, plot, and disrupt.. for some reason nobody seemed to care much, for so long.. the idea that Trump does, seems to stick a few people the wrong way.. fuck them

Fuck them is right!

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

China? I think everyone knows they steal, plot, and disrupt.. for some reason nobody seemed to care much, for so long.. the idea that Trump does, seems to stick a few people the wrong way.. fuck them

I was having a hard time understanding how you could like both Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. I guess this is an example why.

[Austin Ellen]

To me - this is just common sense. It's like going to trial for murder - they might not have the body but you can get convicted on circumstantial evidence. And they have it.
On a side note - I think common sense is a rare commodity these days.

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

Someone attacked oil tankers in the Straits of Hormuz. The White House says it is Iran. Iran says don't blame them. Where do you stand? Going to join the ayatollahs and eventually blame Trump? Or will you stand with Trump, common sense, and your country?

The White House says that China is not to be trusted. They steal intellectual property, lie to the world,and commit unfair business practices. China says the US is exaggerating. Who do you side with?

Dumb ass rhetoric aside, do you support the US or tin pot dictators?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Austin Ellen

To me - this is just common sense. It's like going to trial for murder - they might not have the body but you can get convicted on circumstantial evidence. And they have it.
On a side note - I think common sense is a rare commodity these days.

Although "motive" is not an element of murder, the existence of a known "motive" provides a couple of bits of information to identify the "intent" of the actor and the identity of the actor.

I'm wary of alleged incidents in international waters, just as I was when the Tonkin Gulf attack hit the news .... it just didn't make sense for the NV to initiate an assault with low level gunboats against U.S. naval forces with superior fire power and air cover in international waters. 50 years later "we" learned for a fact that LBJ lied about it ... with the cover of the military.

Two distinctions, at least: 24/7 news coverage from overseas and our (and the Israelis) incredibly reliable technology focused on that part of the world. The Iranians can't fart without it being identified. It just takes a few days to download, inspect, and verify. The latter is being done now. Joe Public may never know what evidence there is to substantiate the source and/or motive. We (the general public) don't need to know details. Also, does it really matter whether they were Iranians or puppets of the Iranians doing their bidding for the Iranians. It seems to be fairly common knowledge the Iranians have plenty of surrogates in the region.

The Iranians didn't do it may be truthful, but they can have it done is also truthful. What difference does it make?