So was Richard Burton a complete jerk?

[ElisabethWhispers]

I would have asked if Burton was an asshole but this is Diamonds and Tuxedos!

While I'm waiting for a biography of Sir Richard Burton to arrive, I thought that a conversation about the two Richard Burton's that we know of would be interesting.

The actor and the explorer, writer, linguist, etc.

Both were compelling and sexually driven men. Thought that a discussion of both would be a potentially riveting topic.

[John Bull]

The explorer was something of a jerk. He was also a lover of women of all types and did some writing along those lines.

The actor went to bed with Liz Taylor in her prime. What else do you need to know?

[ElisabethWhispers]

Oh, there is a lot more to explore.

Was Richard Burton, the lover/sometimes husband of Elisabeth Taylor, a grand lover?

He certainly has some of the traits one associates with being in tune with that side of things. He was a classically trained actor. There is so much more to him, as a man, then just stating that he was a lover of a famous actress.

With Sir Richard Burton, he had a very complicated life. And he was one of the only men to disguise himself and travel to Mecca, without holding the religious views of those who generally travel there.

The complicated writings of Sir Richard Burton, plus his grand knowledge of languages and cultures, would make for an interesting discussion about him and what he accomplished during his travels.

But there is a lot of negativity associated with both men.

Guess that I was trying to come up with a topic that would invite debate without personal attacks. There could be some parallels in comparing the two men, also.

It's not a matter of "needing to know". I've partially read one of Sir Burton's books but I cannot remember the name of it and I'm not finding it on my shelf.

I can always do a google search, John. What I was looking for was a conversation about these two men and what others felt about their journeys and outlooks.

Are they to be admired or chastised for the choices made?

Have we learned anything from these two? The writings of Sir Burton's concerning sexual habits of others, in different societies that he observed first hand, had to have had some impact.

Plus, he was also sent into male dominated brothels to do research. Did Sir Burton have dalliances with males during this time?

A discussion of these two would be interesting.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

Plus, he was also sent into male dominated brothels to do research. Did Sir Burton have dalliances with males during this time?

.

I leave that one for John Bull to answer.

Richard Burton was a heavy drinker and not the greatest of men from my understanding. He snagged Taylor from Eddie Fisher who left Debbie Reynolds for Taylor earlier, Taylor had just lost her husband Mike Todd in a plane crash when Eddie went to comfort her. Eddie and Debbie were pals with Taylor and Todd. If you ever get a chance see Carrie Fisher's show on the screwed up intermingling of these folks, she does a great one woman show that touch's on these things.

[ElisabethWhispers]

I've never seen Carrie Fisher's show but I did read, "Postcards from the Edge" which was a really interesting book. I'll have to check and see what shows she's offering these days.

I'm sure that the intrigue of that clique was very interesting. And I really liked "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf".

Does heavy drinking and womanizing cross out the positives that an individual may possess?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

Does heavy drinking and womanizing cross out the positives that an individual may possess?

It depends on where you are sitting, if you were at the brunt of his womanizing and drinking, maybe so.

For the rest of us, I suspect not.

I did not care for his acting all that much. I'm a Paul Newman fan of that era, who drank a bit himself.

[ElisabethWhispers]

What about Sir Richard Burton? Did you know that he translated the Kama Sutra?

He was a known bigot and I'm sure that his ego was huge but his accomplishments, and the massive traveling that he accomplished, was really awe inspiring.

Guess this topic is going to head South pretty quickly.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

What about Sir Richard Burton? Did you know that he translated the Kama Sutra?

He was a known bigot and I'm sure that his ego was huge but his accomplishments, and the massive traveling that he accomplished, was really awe inspiring.

Guess this topic is going to head South pretty quickly.

Why would you say that?

I know nothing about Sir Richard Burton and did not comment on him.

You brought up a topic that reminded me of a great Carrie Fisher one woman show. I mentioned it...sorry to stray off topic.

All the Burton lovers, continue without me.

[ElisabethWhispers]

I love a thread drift and I'm a fan of Carrie Fisher, even though she seems to have lived a somewhat blessed life although to read her books, you wouldn't think it.

I'm not a lover of either Burtons. Again, just thought it would make for a good topic, which this forum is lacking of. Or so it seems.

I do find that lives of both to be interesting, though.

Just my thoughts.

[Marcus Aurelius]

“The mark of a mature man is a certain scar he bears: the memory of a perfect woman never won, or of a once-true love forever lost..."
I would have said "The face of a true love that is gone but still haunts."
My fist to the gods.

However a young Elizabeth Taylor, WOW.

[Doglegg]

If it weren't for your thread Elizabeth, I would not have known of there being two Richard Burtons, knowing only of the actor.

For that I thank you.

Let us engage in discussion of the Sir.

An explorer, writer and man about town.

If you were a woman of his time period and you were typically minded at the time, you would have been fascinated and possibly enthralled with him, and may have even had a copy of his more erotic tales well hidden from everyone but a trusted servant.

Other han going to a reading or possibly a dinner party where he would have been the honored guest and there only would have been polite banter.

For real discussions the men would sequester themselves so as not to be bothered with the frivolities of women.

Had you been married to him, the expectation would have been to maintain a respectable home and to bear children and to be as non-interruptive as possible.

Had you been a sporting woman you would have learned a thing or two, but as with most heavy drinkers that were master's of the domain, may have been the recipient of a sharp tongue and rapier wit.

And more than likely the fault for not being engaging enough for his 'manhood'.

Now I understand that may be some of my own projection, as I am more likely to see the sinner rather than the saint.

For the Richard Actor, I probably would have enjoyed his drunken tales, and marvelled at how he would have had your panties delivered with your room key as we sat at the table reciting lines from longfellow, Tennyson, and Kipling.

At the same time, Elizabeth T would have been fuming as he missed another dinner and wondering which of his 'friends' would be blamed for splashing him with Chanel No 5 and planting lipstick on his collar as an ill-mannered joke to see Liz get jealous.

Cad, scoundrel, rapscallion, the actor was said to have been a boy in his desires and ability to stay away from instant gratification.

Good discussion topic Lithbeth.

Dogg

[John Bull]

I hadn't heard of Sir Richard since I read one of his books while in my 20's. I must toddle up to my library and see if it still has a place in it after so many re-arrangings by various spouses and cleaning ladies. I can see the dust cover in my minds eye so know what I'm looking for...for a change.

[awl4knot]

About 20 years ago I read a biography about the original Sir Richard Burton. The guy was a total stud and made James Bond look like a schoolboy. He was renowned as a warrior, was a true spy who would disguise himself as an Afghan and pass (he even had himself circumcised so that private parts would not mark him as an infidel) and was a remarkable explorer and adventurer.

In addition to translating the Kama Sutra, he also translated the Perfumed Garden, an Arabic guide to love and sex which described a number of sexual positions, including the Seventh Posture, which is one of my favorites. It requires a fairly flexible partner, but it does create a carnal intimacy that is very, very potent.

I don't have much interest in the more recent actor. Elizabeth Taylor never rocked my boat and the drinking and adultery made she and Dick tawdry and common. But it is interesting how at the outset they were so compulsively attracted to each other. I experienced that once in my life and the tumult that resulted certainly tinged the exhilaration of that molten, passionate madness that inevitably, and mercifully, passed away.

[pyramider]

So which Dick is this thread about?

[ElisabethWhispers]

Originally Posted by pyramider

So which Dick is this thread about?

Both. I wanted a topic that would be somewhat multifaceted.

I did get my biography of Sir Richard Burton in the mail yesterday, though. It's the one by Edward Rice.

I've actually been interested in Sir Richard Burton for awhile. I've always thought the actor Burton was attractive in this wild sort of way, although he's not classically handsome. He did seem like someone who would know passion.

More later. There is so much more to share. Kindof busy today.

Elisabeth