What is sin and mans relation to God?

[bojulay]

Most people both secular and religious have a misunderstanding
about the whole thing. The problem is not really sin the long list of
thou shalt nots, the problem is mans sinful nature, all of the
thou shalt nots are just a by product of that, the end result.

It's been the same sense the garden. If you read the story the devil
didn't tempt them with the old silly idea of come and follow me and I
will fulfill all of your desires, no they already had everything they could
want. The temptation was--Hey, look here, you can be your own boss,
the master of your own destiny, God is just holding out on you and
that's not right-- and they went for it.

Man has been doing the same thing ever sense, trying to be his own
master and failing miserable, just a little study of history is all it takes
to prove that.

Or just look at this board, everyone has their own opinion about
everything with most of the time the justification or credibility
for their opinion being--It's my opinion, that's what really counts--

Man has been trying to be his own master ever sense the fall.
( Hows that working out for you? )


Now I've gone and done it.

[WTF]

God sure fucked up when he made us...

[MooneyFlyer]

Sin gives God something to do when he's not very busy . . .

I hope he's really busy this afternoon around 2:00!

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by WTF

God sure fucked up when he made us...

If God fucked up it was when he gave us the choice.

We and God have been paying for it ever sense.

A man can't have two masters so it is said.
To be our own master is to separate ourselves from God,
and to be separated from God brings sin and death along
with that little travel package. ( Overlord of the sinful nature )
the sinful nature becomes your new master, along with death.

Man hasn't defeated death yet through modern science.
( or the sinful nature )
My guess is that we never will, anyway if we did, it would
just be an extension until we got hit by a bus or something.

Sorry, wasn't my idea.

[jbravo_123]

Stupid freedom. That God guy really hates the Constitution!

[Yssup Rider]

You sure picked a great audience for this thread.

Sounds like you've got "buyer's remorse!"

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

You sure picked a great audience for this thread.

Sounds like you've got "buyer's remorse!"

This audience, any audience, all pretty much the same.

Yeah, I would have rather stayed in the garden.

[bojulay]

There were some questions in the other thread about the bible,
how much is possibly literal, how much is metaphor.

One thing I can say for sure is that Adam and Eve are described as something
different that God did. They enjoyed a place of higher state and then
were relegated to a lower state of being. A place where they were
now subject to the laws that ruled and governed it.

The Garden Of Eden is described as a place under different laws
than our present state of being, and a place that they were cast
out of and bared from entrance again.

Could it have been a place that occupied a different dimension.

Quantum Physics is now coming to the understanding that the
possibility of different dimensions can be a reality and not just
the stuff of science fiction anymore.

Anyway there are different possibilities.

Another thing I know, the more you come to the understanding
of certain things, religion, science, whatever, the more you see
just how little you really do understand them.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by bojulay

Most people both secular and religious have a misunderstanding
about the whole thing. The problem is not really sin the long list of
thou shalt nots, the problem is mans sinful nature, all of the
thou shalt nots are just a by product of that, the end result.

It's been the same sense the garden. If you read the story the devil
didn't tempt them with the old silly idea of come and follow me and I
will fulfill all of your desires, no they already had everything they could
want. The temptation was--Hey, look here, you can be your own boss,
the master of your own destiny, God is just holding out on you and
that's not right-- and they went for it.

Man has been doing the same thing ever sense, trying to be his own
master and failing miserable, just a little study of history is all it takes
to prove that.

Or just look at this board, everyone has their own opinion about
everything with most of the time the justification or credibility
for their opinion being--It's my opinion, that's what really counts--

Man has been trying to be his own master ever sense the fall.
( Hows that working out for you? )


Now I've gone and done it.

Assuming the Biblical story is literal truth and not a parable, Man's first sin was really a mirror image of Lucifer's first sin. Lucifer was originally an angel in Heaven. He was cast out of Heaven, just as Man was cast out out the Garden of Eden, because he refused to subordinate himself to God. For Man and Lucifer, pride was the first sin. God requires that his nature be acknowledged. He is infinite, we are not.

The Bible says that for a man to enter the kingdom of Heaven he must first become as a little child; this simply means we must acknowledge, that relative to God, we are essentially children.

I really think the core difference between the liberal world view and the conservative world view is the difference in their opinion of Man's nature.

Liberals view Man's nature as tabula rosa, or blank slate; they think humans can be programmed to be good little robots that are solely motivated by the common good.

Conservatives understand that Man is not a blank slate; we are selfish by nature. Concern for the common good is not easily programmed into us. Our natural instinct is to act based on self interest.

A political system that is based on a flawed view of Man's nature is a system that is doomed to fail.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by bojulay

This audience, any audience, all pretty much the same.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by bojulay

Yeah, I would have rather stayed in the garden.

Why!?! How boring. Christian heaven sounds positively ghastly.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by MooneyFlyer

Sin gives God something to do when he's not very busy . . .

I hope he's really busy this afternoon around 2:00!

I think that may be nap time for God. It gives you about an hour to hobby.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Agreed.



Why!?! How boring. Christian heaven sounds positively ghastly.

Adam gave up his rights never to gain them back again, just
the way it is. Someone was needed to fill in the gap. Christ
from the Christian perspective.

That's why it is called his church, his kingdom, his people, ect.

According to Christian belief he is the one that paid the necessary
price, to the victor goes the spoils.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, but if someone is not going to
believe in something they should at least have some understanding
of what it is.

[Guest050715-1]

I am quite clear. You are aware as a Christian you are breaking three of the main tenants of I Am. Thou shalt take no Gods before me. And that Christianity is a polytheist religion that is riddled with graven images and images of their Gods. What do you care anyway? Are you bored today?

I get emails and texts like this from Christians trying to save me all the time. I had one guy telling me he loved me bla-bla-bla and in the end he was calling me the breath of hell. Personally, I think it should have been capitalized (Breath of Hell), but that's a matter of opinion. Kinda like what God / s is / are most powerful. I wish you luck on your crusade. Though I'm not sure you'll find many takers especially since you aren't even aware what Commandments you may or may not be breaking. And that you have to start at the beginning not on some lonely road to Damascus where the father of the Church, a tax collecting, power thirsty, misogynist who never met Jesus, decided enough was enough and he needed some to dig into into some juicy pork ribs.

[Old Dingus]

All the Garden needed was some good Moderators. Just sayin.

[SinsOfTheFlesh]

Diiiiiiiiiid somebody say Sin??