Benefits of Socialism mixed with Capitalism to produce the good life for all

[Guest051115]

It's a win win for all.





First it is important to point out that socialism is an economic system, not a political one. So all of the political propaganda is just that, propaganda. There is nothing about Socialism that is unconstitutional, illegal, or in anyways hinders a democracy, in fact, socialism would tend to have more people involved in the democratic process.

• Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
• Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
• Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
• Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
• Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
• Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
• Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
• Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
• Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
• Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
• Socialism would end poverty.
• Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
• Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.

True socialism, when done correctly, helps to end political unrest because it gives everyone a chance to participate in the system letting their voices be heard and their needs met in the most efficient and complete way possible. There are of course, many other benefits both minor and major, but at its very core true socialism is about the spirit of community, something that is sorely lacking in America today and the world at large.


Source

[boardman]

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”


― Margaret Thatcher

[Guest051115]

I found these comments from a source who's lived much longer than myself.

McGuiness, let me take a shot at this. Your perception of our nation and its isolation is pretty accurate. However it is a self-imposed isolation because we have this grand delusion about ourselves that I first began to see back in the 1960s.

Those times were the beginning of the end for American hegemony (or at least our delusion of it.) I joined in the "hippie" movement because it was exciting and this country needed some excitement, some change, some new way to think about ourselves and the world. They were difficult times for many who had the awareness to see that we'd been living in a cocoon of denial.

The first inkling came when I discovered that Americans were being referred to as "ugly Americans" by Europeans. I was curious why. What made us ugly? Especially since at home in that cocoon we thought outselves so wonderful. As it turned out, the ugly part came from the attitude the newly affluent middle-class held when traveling about the world. We saw ourselves as the savior of that world and went about expecting everyone to kowtow to us and couldn't understand why we were being shunned and avoided.

That cocoon is still with us and holds most of the right-wing Republicans and a substantial number of Democrats who can't grasp the idea that we were not the end-all and be-all. The tendency of a large portion of this nation to remain in denial of a lot of reality and a refusal to accept any truth about ourselves, has created a blinding patriotic lockstep that most of whom you mention hold to with the fervor of a dying breed who also refuses to accept that death.

Those -- let's just call them the 'right' for the sake of simplicity -- long for a world of righteous pioneer spirit that never was. They refuse to accept that we did not discover and settle this nation, but rather carved it out of the hides of the indigenous peoples with the labor of slaves, coolies and wetbacks with no regard for their membership in the same human species to which we belong.

I aligned myself with Obama the first time I heard the keynote speech he gave at the 2004 Democratic Convention nearly 8 years ago. He seemed sincere in the noble and lofty goals he proposed for us. He caught me in his net when he said, "... my presence on this stage is pretty unlikely..." It is a speech that still generates in me, excitement, nobility and faith in the future. It is a speech that still brings tears to my eyes.
(http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/barackobama...)

The 2012 election will resolve many of the difficulties and conundrums presented in your post and that resound in all our hearts and minds. The 2012 election will prove the true mettle of this nation and its people. I believe we will rise above the lockstep rhetoric and bigotry of the right and show that we as a people have risen above the pettiness and narrow-mindedness that once earned us the sobriquet "ugly American."

I've written much here about the future and what we can and will achieve. My faith is not in religion, nor in a disingenuous history, nor in the arrogant hubris of the right. My faith is in my species -- the human race. We have always risen above our past and stepped forward into the future and we are doing it again. We are in a new era that for the first time encompasses the entire world. Rathter than no child left behind, the mantra is no nation left behind. A blend, a hybrid world based in free-market capitalism and social equality is rising as surely as the sun.

The impetus for this belief can be encapsulated in the hundred years past. When we entered the 20th century were were a world locked in continual mortal combat on battlefields soaked in blood. If we ever could have destroyed ourselves and the world with us, it was during the Cold War and we came damned close. But we are still here. We survived and have grown as a consequence of those fearful times. Our species is dawning a new age with awesome technology and ability. We not only survive but will create a world that encompasses every individual, every race, every nation, and every dream we have ever had. Have faith. It is happening and most of us will live to see it.

Source

[Guest051115]

Originally Posted by boardman

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”


― Margaret Thatcher

I'm talking a hybrid system that rewards and also punishes those who don't want to work and leech of others. Help come up with a solution and talk through the scenarios boardman or get lost. All the silly bickering and complaining means nothing. Help be part of the solution and the solution is NOT traditional capitalism we've seen what that's done to this country to date.

What are your bi-partisan solutions?

[boardman]

Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

I'm talking a hybrid system that rewards and also punishes those who don't want to work and leech of others. Help come up with a solution and talk through the scenarios boardman or get lost. All the silly bickering and complaining means nothing. Help be part of the solution and the solution is NOT traditional capitalism we've seen what that's done to this country to date.

What are your bi-partisan solutions?

Bipartisan? ^^^^^^^^^^Seems your mind is made up...

A hybrid? Isn't that what we have now. Where the people smart enough or have the work ethic make the money and the government takes that away and gives it to those who don't or can't.

Sounds suspiciously like "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs"

My solution would never be bipartisan. It makes too much sense.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by boardman

My solution would never be bipartisan. It makes too much sense.

What would your solution to education be? How do you pay to educate our youth?

[HoustonMilfDebbie]

Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

It's a win win for all.





First it is important to point out that socialism is an economic system, not a political one. So all of the political propaganda is just that, propaganda. There is nothing about Socialism that is unconstitutional, illegal, or in anyways hinders a democracy, in fact, socialism would tend to have more people involved in the democratic process.

• Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
• Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
• Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
• Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
• Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
• Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
• Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
• Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
• Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
• Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
• Socialism would end poverty.
• Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
• Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.

True socialism, when done correctly, helps to end political unrest because it gives everyone a chance to participate in the system letting their voices be heard and their needs met in the most efficient and complete way possible. There are of course, many other benefits both minor and major, but at its very core true socialism is about the spirit of community, something that is sorely lacking in America today and the world at large.


Source

Excellent post! A cure for capitalism by Richard D. Wolff:

http://youtu.be/guSdjsctrUQ

[boardman]

Originally Posted by WTF

What would your solution to education be? How do you pay to educate our youth?

Define your problem with education?

[Guest051115]

Originally Posted by boardman

Bipartisan? ^^^^^^^^^^Seems your mind is made up...

A hybrid? Isn't that what we have now. Where the people smart enough or have the work ethic make the money and the government takes that away and gives it to those who don't or can't.

Sounds suspiciously like "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs"

My solution would never be bipartisan. It makes too much sense.

You're still smoking the far right talking points joint. If you're ever ready to open up your mind then we can have a serious discussion but right now the traditional forms of thinking along with traditional views of poor and middle class people have inhibited your ability to think outside the box. No worries even the good word states it would be hard to uproot strongly entrenched things.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by HoustonMilfDebbie

Excellent post! A cure for capitalism by Richard D. Wolff:

http://youtu.be/guSdjsctrUQ

Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

It's a win win for all.





First it is important to point out that socialism is an economic system, not a political one. So all of the political propaganda is just that, propaganda. There is nothing about Socialism that is unconstitutional, illegal, or in anyways hinders a democracy, in fact, socialism would tend to have more people involved in the democratic process.

• Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation.
• Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc.
• Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load.
• Socialism creates an egalitarian society.
• Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place.
• Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole.
• Socialism would free workers from wage slavery.
• Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation.
• Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources.
• Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations.
• Socialism would end poverty.
• Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime.
• Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail.

True socialism, when done correctly, helps to end political unrest because it gives everyone a chance to participate in the system letting their voices be heard and their needs met in the most efficient and complete way possible. There are of course, many other benefits both minor and major, but at its very core true socialism is about the spirit of community, something that is sorely lacking in America today and the world at large.


Source

I don't think Capitalism means what you two think it means.

[Guest051115]

Originally Posted by boardman

I don't think Capitalism means what you two think it means.

Enlighten me please.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

Enlighten me please.

Personally, I would encourage you to seek a real education rather than enlightenment on a SHMB.

Butt, since you asked for it...

Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

It's a win win for all.





First it is important to point out that socialism is an economic system, not a political one. So all of the political propaganda is just that, propaganda. There is nothing about Socialism that is unconstitutional, illegal, or in anyways hinders a democracy, in fact, socialism would tend to have more people involved in the democratic process.

• Capitalism is a system based solely on exploitation whether it be the exploitation of the natural environment or of one another and as such it is ultimately unsustainable and creates an oppressed society under the cultural (or political) tyranny of the elite few and thus has created many of the ills of our society; socialism to the contrary works to eliminate this exploitation. A true Capitalist recognizes that resources are finite and works just as hard to replace what he uses because he knows it means sustainability
  
• Socialism takes the ownership, responsibility, and benefits of resources and the means of productions out of the hands of the elite few and puts them under the collective hands of the people. Contrary to popular belief, this actually increases the quality of goods produced, etc. After all, are you going to work harder to produce a better product or service to make someone else rich or for your own company of which you have a vested interest? With socialism the workers themselves own the companies, resources, and means of productions so they have a very real connection and vested interest in the well being of said companies, etc. How do you put anything into the collective hands of the people. By giving government control of the resources and production then letting them take their cut off of the top. Wouldn't that make government capitalists.
  
• Socialism creates community values. Socialism reinforces the idea that "we are all in this together" instead of each man fending for himself at any cost. This tends to have positive social benefits while equally distributing the work load. No, it creates an entitled portion of society from those who think that they deserve something they didn't work for.
  
• Socialism creates an egalitarian society. Not in a good way. We would all be equal in that we are dependent on the government.
  
• Socialism allows workers to reap the full benefits of their own efforts and ends the institutionalized robbery of the very workers who are producing the wealth in the first place. There are naturally leader and followers and varied levels of both. Some are cut out to lead outright, others need leaders above them telling them what to do and how to lead. Still others want nothing to do with leading. Anyone that strives to be the best at what they do will be rewarded, move on to someone that will reward them or figure out how to do it on their own. You can't regulate the human spirit any more than you can legislate morality.
  
• Socialism, when done right, raises the standard of living for the entire nation as a whole. When done right? So does Capitalism when "done right" but much better.
  
• Socialism would free workers from wage slavery. Socialism creates wage slavery by letting the government determine what is fair rather than letting free markets set the wage. The most productive worker should get the highest pay, No?
  
• Socialism would raise the level of education and health services and make them available for all citizens thereby raising the over all quality of life for the entire nation. Because a true capitalist want stupid, unhealthy workers, They make him so much more money than those who come to work everyday and can read and write.
  
• Under socialism need would drive production not profit which means those services and goods which were most needed but which yield little profit in the past would now be available including life saving medicines, new technologies, and better food sources. The government is inhibiting those those things to a large degree. Think FDA. wasting money on Solyndra and Farm bills that encourage farmers not to grow certain things. I think the free market can determine what we "need" and want better than self serving politicians.
  
• Socialism would end the monopolies and tyrannies of mega-corporations. Socialism creates those things by allowing government to interfere with businesses too big to fail. You want to end monopolies? Let pure competition have a run. (See deregulation of the airline industry for an example)
  
• Socialism would end poverty. By creating a lower standard of what poverty is.
  
• Socialism would result in healthier citizens by increasing the access to healthy food, better nutrition, and healthy lifestyle not available or encouraged under a capitalist regime. Again, Capitalists want unhealthy workers why?
  
• Socialism creates a sustainable society that can build and flourish both for the current generation as well as those to come, unlike capitalism which is designed to ultimately fail. Creating goods and providing services through free markets based on supply and demand will fail. Huh?
  

True socialism, when done correctly, helps to end political unrest because it gives everyone a chance to participate in the system letting their voices be heard and their needs met in the most efficient and complete way possible. There are of course, many other benefits both minor and major, but at its very core true socialism is about the spirit of community, something that is sorely lacking in America today and the world at large. Thanks to the Great Uniter we are more divided than we have been in my lifetime.


Source

Uh, OK?

You see Socialism as a panacea, I see it as a scourge.
Now I understand that you believe that we are operating under a Capitalist system. We aren't. We protect businesses too big to fail. Businesses we let get that big in the first place with anti-capitalist zero tolerance legislation.
A capitalist does not support government intervention because that means regulation on the other end. Let the markets hold corporations accountable. If management is doing things that are hurting people then they should be held accountable. Don't slap them on the wrist and then make up more legislation that gets misinterpreted or misused. If they commit fraud or hurt people intentionally and it can be proved. Throw their asses in jail.
Ideologically it sounds wonderful but there will always be a portion of the working class that strives to do better, a portion that is happy with what they have and a portion that will always feel like they aren't getting theirs and blame it on the ones working harder for it. How do you propose to change a persons thought process? Government regulation?

I'm more for letting people make their own choices in their personal life, their professional life and their sex life or whatever is important to them not telling them what they should believe is important.

In short a capitalist believes that 1000 merchants competing for the same dollar is much better than one company telling us what we are going to pay.

[Guest051115]

I applaud your effort at an explanation. Bout to grab lunch. I cant wait for the ensuing debate upon my return. Yay.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by boardman

Not in a good way. We would all be equal in that we are dependent on the government.

+1

While socialists falsely "claim" they are raising the standard of living for all, they actually lower the standard of living for the majority.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by Zanzibar789

I applaud your effort at an explanation. Bout to grab lunch. I cant wait for the ensuing debate upon my return. Yay.

Oh, boy,
Can't wait...

Stop by Half Price Books and pick up a copy of Wealth of Nations. Browse it while you're eating.