Taxes and Deregulation

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by themystic

Deregulation often means, lets get around paying as little as we can. Lets get a President who gives a GIANT tax break to the wealthy. Then we will look at the middle and lower incomes.

Starting another thread to avoid hijacking an old one. Regulation, done with executive orders and by out of control bureaucrats, had gone too far under Obama. Trump is unwinding some of that. He may have gone too far in some areas, but he probably hasn't gone far enough in others. I don't know, I'm no expert in this area.

As to taxes, he raised mine, and I'm comparatively well off. From a personal perspective I didn't like his changes. However, Democrats who perpetually go on about taxing the rich more are mistaken and when they get their way it works out worse for everyone. The USA has the most progressive tax system in the developed world. The rich pay a higher % and the poor and middle class pay a lower % of their income in taxes compared to other places. Democrats who think they can cure poverty and inequality by making the tax system more progressive are mistaken. It hasn't worked so far and it won't work in the future.

[friendly fred]

Excessive taxation and regulation is bad.

Thank God Trump is unwinding the damage caused by Obama.

[WTF]

The problem most folks make when discussing taxes is focusing exclusively on the Federal Income tax.

They exclude taxes such as sales tax....a very regressive tax.

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by WTF

The problem most folks make when discussing taxes is focusing exclusively on the Federal Income tax.

They exclude taxes such as sales tax....a very regressive tax.

While the sales tax is technically regressive the needed items for the poor, such as nutritious grocery products and such are sales tax free.

The poor fucks pay taxes on cigs and beer, as they should. Motherfuckers are always trying to tax the rich and get a free ride.

[garhkal]

Well, smokes and booz are NOT necessities.. So they should get taxed.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by friendly fred

While the sales tax is technically regressive the needed items for the poor, such as nutritious grocery products and such are sales tax free.

The poor fucks pay taxes on cigs and beer, as they should. Motherfuckers are always trying to tax the rich and get a free ride.

The government always taxes what brings the poor people pleasure. Free ride? Is that what we gave all those cock suckers we bailed out during the Financial Crisis 2008, (under Bush Jr). You remember AIG, Goldman's, etc. We payed off their shit and NONE of them went to jail

[themystic]

Originally Posted by friendly fred

While the sales tax is technically regressive the needed items for the poor, such as nutritious grocery products and such are sales tax free.

The poor fucks pay taxes on cigs and beer, as they should. Motherfuckers are always trying to tax the rich and get a free ride.

so why is the corporate tax 15% and regular people are pay 20%+. How is that?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by friendly fred

While the sales tax is technically regressive the needed items for the poor, such as nutritious grocery products and such are sales tax free.

The poor fucks pay taxes on cigs and beer, as they should. Motherfuckers are always trying to tax the rich and get a free ride.

What do you consider the SS and Medicare tax?

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...es-progressive

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Democrats who think they can cure poverty and inequality by making the tax system more progressive are mistaken. It hasn't worked so far and it won't work in the future.

It actually has worked. This country used to raise taxes after Wars...on the rich.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by WTF

It actually has worked. This country used to raise taxes after Wars...on the rich.

at 95% tax rate. of course, the rich were never taxed at that rate, but they were taxed high. this was brought down to 60% by Kennedy in 1960's.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

The problem most folks make when discussing taxes is focusing exclusively on the Federal Income tax.

They exclude taxes such as sales tax....a very regressive tax.

This is one of the reasons the USA has the most progressive tax system in the developed world. Most developed nations have large value added taxes (VAT's), a form of a sales tax, which raise a large percent of revenues. As you note, a sales tax (or a VAT) is regressive. In the USA, we don't have a VAT, and sales taxes are a comparatively small part of the total tax (federal plus state plus local) that we pay.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by themystic

so why is the corporate tax 15% and regular people are pay 20%+. How is that?

The federal corporate tax rate before Trump's Tax Cuts & Jobs Act (TCJA) was 35%. Add in state income taxes and you get to 39%. We had the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, after the United Arab Emirates.

The TCJA cut the federal corporate tax rate to 21%. Add in state income taxes, and we now have a rate that's about average compared to our competitors. After that, add the tax on dividends and capital gains that shareholders pay, being an additional 23.8% or 40.8%, and you've got a rate above the 20%+ you quote.

Prior to the TCJA, some corporations were able to lower their effective tax rates far below 39%. A common strategy for a drug or tech company would be to park their patents in a tax haven like Ireland, then recognize most of their profits from the subsidiary in the tax haven. The TCJA addressed this to an extent. Unfortunately, these changes didn't go nearly far enough to correct this problem for multinationals, while screwing people who directly own an interest in a foreign company. Some individuals will end up paying a 60%+ tax rate. And some of the multinationals who, say, might have been paying at an effective tax rate of 5% or 10%, will only see their effective rates go up a little.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

What do you consider the SS and Medicare tax?

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brie...es-progressive

I consider these to be a pension and insurance respectively. And they're great deals for the average recipient. He receives a lot more in benefits than he pays in, after adjusting for inflation. They shouldn't be included in calculating income tax rates.

Social Security and Medicare are such good deals that they're going to bankrupt the country if changes aren't made.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

This is one of the reasons the USA has the most progressive tax system in the developed world. Most developed nations have large value added taxes (VAT's), a form of a sales tax, which raise a large percent of revenues. As you note, a sales tax (or a VAT) is regressive. In the USA, we don't have a VAT, and sales taxes are a comparatively small part of the total tax (federal plus state plus local) that we pay.

SS and Medicare are regressive taxes and a large part of the federal government.

you're falling in the Trap that most people do that make the argument against Progressive taxes that is focusing just on the federal tax code

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

SS and Medicare are regressive taxes and a large part of the federal government.

you're falling in the Trap that most people do that make the argument against Progressive taxes that is focusing just on the federal tax code

Again, I view these as payments towards a pension and insurance. But if you insist on viewing them as taxes, they're progressive. The average person who receives the benefits gets a lot more than what he pays for. And ultimately, when we have to pay the piper, when Social Security and Medicare would otherwise bankrupt the nation, the shortfalls are going to be taken out of the hides of the better off.

I'm absolutely not focusing on the federal tax code or federal income tax. I'm getting this from OECD studies that look at the total tax rate among countries, from all sources at federal, state and local levels. Again, it's partly the fact that we don't have a VAT that makes our system more progressive than others.