How Does LE Make the Case Against an AMP?

[billw1032]

Here's a question for a lawyer or someone with professional knowledge in the legal profession. Maybe the answer is obvious, but it's not to me and it has been bugging me for a while now.

This week there was evidently a raid of two Dallas AMPs. This is mostly my idle curiosity asking, but my question is, exactly what evidence does LE need to make a case against an AMP that will stick in court and/or that will convince a judge to issue a warrant?

I'm certainly not an expert in this area, but from reading "Encounter Reports" I have discerned a few things. First, it seems that there's almost never a verbal discussion of what will take place, hence no agreement of activities for money. Second, she either takes the "donation" out of the room before any activity happens, or else leaves it on the table and ignores it until the end of the session.

It seems that some (but not all) of the girls don't speak great English, so an agreement may be difficult to establish. How far can an undercover officer go to "make his case", and if he bails on a session before the activities begin wouldn't that set off alarm bells?

Finally, sure we all know what goes on there. The question is, if the AMP staff is reasonably smart how can they gather enough evidence to actually make an accusation that will stick in court?

[Blackwidowspider]

LEO doesn't bail before session, he gets a body massage, flips over, the provider says or motions with her hand with HE offer, LE asks how much and then declines HE, finishes massage and leaves, solicitation of sex acts done and done. It takes more than one visit to show intent and knowledge illegal activity is occuring and management/staff have knowledge of it.

[billw1032]

Originally Posted by Blackwidowspider

LEO doesn't bail before session, he gets a body massage, flips over, the provider says or motions with her hand with HE offer, LE asks how much and then declines HE, finishes massage and leaves, solicitation of sex acts done and done. It takes more than one visit to show intent and knowledge illegal activity is occuring and management/staff have knowledge of it.

The mainstream AMPs (at least in Dallas) will show you the door if you ask for a massage. They are not licensed massage establishments and they know that's an LE trap. I don't think this is the way a typical AMP session would go (but, again, I'm not an expert).

[JRLawrence]

Hey,
None of this matters. The court doesn't matter because the AMP is closed. The AMP moves across town and they are back in business, or into another business they already own. The girls keep working. The police, and political guys take credit for a job well done.

Life moves on.

[RetiredSubmariner]

Most LEOs I have worked with would each go to the AMP for the full service. Then they go home and they write a statement of what they did and what happened.

With 3 or 4 of these statements, the lead investigator will go to a judge for a warrant.

[Massagejunkyie69]

Originally Posted by RetiredSubmariner

Most LEOs I have worked with would each go to the AMP for the full service. Then they go home and they write a statement of what they did and what happened.

With 3 or 4 of these statements, the lead investigator will go to a judge for a warrant.

Damn! Where do I sign up? I can see it now. "But honey, i have to go to those places and fuck the shit out of those girls! Its my job! Plus, they reimburse me my $200 every time - so its free! Also honey, if I'm fucking those girls in the ass, I can leave your ass alone! It's a win win!"

Now that's a job I'd line up for.

[RetiredSubmariner]

Originally Posted by Massagejunkyie69

Damn! Where do I sign up? I can see it now. "But honey, i have to go to those places and fuck the shit out of those girls! Its my job! Plus, they reimburse me my $200 every time - so its free! Also honey, if I'm fucking those girls in the ass, I can leave your ass alone! It's a win win!"

Now that's a job I'd line up for.

PDs with a large budget have pretty sweet budget for electronic bugs. They have the city health department to shut you down for one day, while the techs go into and install hidden cameras in every room.

They sit backend record everything that happens for the next month, as your business does its thing.

By the time that LEOs come around to serve warrants, it is all over, except for the court docket.

[billw1032]

Originally Posted by RetiredSubmariner

PDs with a large budget have pretty sweet budget for electronic bugs. They have the city health department to shut you down for one day, while the techs go into and install hidden cameras in every room.

They sit backend record everything that happens for the next month, as your business does its thing.

By the time that LEOs come around to serve warrants, it is all over, except for the court docket.

I'm pretty sure that would require a warrant, and a warrant requires probable cause. In some places surveillance and video recording requires a pretty high standard. In the famous case of Patriots owner Robert Kraft, LE had a warrant but the judge eventually threw out the recordings because certain requirements were not met. ( https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/2...piter-spa-case)

That's one of the things that made me post this question, and to ask for the opinions of a lawyer or someone in the legal profession. I'm wondering what the actual legal requirements are that will convince a judge to issue a warrant that will stick and what evidence is needed to make an actual court case. Yeah, it's probably true that the AMP can be shut down even if the case doesn't stick, but too many raids and arrests that don't pan out probably will get someone at the PD in trouble eventually. That's why I'm looking for the real, informed story about what the law requires and not just speculation from us casual observers.

[Blackwidowspider]

Why not just look up amps that have been busted, see what the details were that led to their being raided.

[billw1032]

Originally Posted by Blackwidowspider

Why not just look up amps that have been busted, see what the details were that led to their being raided.

For a couple of reasons:

First, when I've tried in the past to search for police reports or legal documents I found it very difficult to locate what I was looking for. Unless you're trained in legal research (which I'm not), finding the right information is hard. In fact, I don't even know what documents I would be looking for. That's what legal professionals know how to do and do daily.

Second, even if I found the right documents that doesn't give me the legal theory behind what happened, and doesn't tell me how to analyze the facts of the case and the elements of the offense that need to be proven and how it can be done. That's what lawyers learn in law school and should know cold.

I was hoping a lawyer or other legal professional would take an interest in this topic. A good one should be able to explain it to us lay persons in an understandable way in just a couple of paragraphs.

[nickjordy]

yes loyal have knowlege all legal report they knows

[dreamvacationdates]

Originally Posted by billw1032

For a couple of reasons:

First, when I've tried in the past to search for police reports or legal documents I found it very difficult to locate what I was looking for. Unless you're trained in legal research (which I'm not), finding the right information is hard. In fact, I don't even know what documents I would be looking for. That's what legal professionals know how to do and do daily.

Second, even if I found the right documents that doesn't give me the legal theory behind what happened, and doesn't tell me how to analyze the facts of the case and the elements of the offense that need to be proven and how it can be done. That's what lawyers learn in law school and should know cold.

I was hoping a lawyer or other legal professional would take an interest in this topic. A good one should be able to explain it to us lay persons in an understandable way in just a couple of paragraphs.

So when are you planning to open your AMP

[playerplano]

I’m not a lawyer but I did sleep last night lol.

Most AMPs are not busted for services rendered but money laundering or tax issues. They use the excuse of trafficking to get in the doors but the money is the real deal closer. I expect the bar for warrants is lower for trafficking.

For what it’s worth I have never had any vibe of trafficking at an AMP but the AAMP situation reeks to me.

[Medulla]

Originally Posted by billw1032

Yeah, it's probably true that the AMP can be shut down even if the case doesn't stick, but too many raids and arrests that don't pan out probably will get someone at the PD in trouble eventually.

Mate,

If cops are getting away with murdering innocent citizens year after year, then low chance of an AMP getting justice after being fucked over by the police.

Originally Posted by RetiredSubmariner

Most LEOs I have worked with would each go to the AMP for the full service. Then they go home and they write a statement of what they did and what happened.

With 3 or 4 of these statements, the lead investigator will go to a judge for a warrant.

Of course you would know what goes on behind the scenes of LEOs...



Cheers.

[orallvr69]

"If cops are getting away with murdering innocent citizens year after year"

Where is this happening?