Integrity, Hero Worship, When the "Oh He Could Never" types cross over the line.

[Whispers]

Over the many years I have participated on these websites I have come to meet or just know, some of the most dynamic as well as beloved Posters that participate in these communities.

Whether they be an Admin, a Mod or just a rather vocal member of the community with high opinions of what is right and just that everyone can agree is so and no one really challenges.

Some of these guys become incredibly revered and idolized for their consistent stance on how a lady should be treated, They are typically held out to be of the highest integrity and considered to be the most honorable of men.

But at the end of the day.

They are just a man.

Not a god. Not infallible.

And over the years, those of us that have been around know of times when one or another has strayed and crossed over to a behavior no one could remotely believe them possible of. When they became corrupt and guilty of things they have preached repetitively of condemning,

They become hypocrites of the worst type as they preach an honorable message and chastise others for behaviors that behind the scenes, pail in comparison to their own.

How do you feel when the unbelievable comes to be known and it was someone you thought highly of?

You shared a meal or a drink with him.

Never remotely thinking he could be could be talking out one side of his mouth to you and another side to others.

Your opinions please.

[Buckskin]

Are we talking about any one particular?

[Guest062716]

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to device." Sir Walter Scott.

Interesting post, Whispers.

While you and I have, at times, not always agreed, I believe we have earned one another’s respect over the past 6 years on these boards. I agree, that in the end, we are all mere man (human), and as such, fallible.

Our occasional failings make us no less man, rather more human, even for those “revered”. I believe there is a challenge in being “revered” in that “all eyes are on you”. In that case, sometimes the simplest “fault” becomes magnified.

While I claim no special privileges or honors (Yes, I have been a mod, both here and in Austin – but in the end I am a mere hobbyist), I have and I do proudly post my personal thoughts and opinions and have even made a list of 12 personal challenges to our members here http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=484544&highlight=

1. To post what is true and fair.
2. To differentiate between fact and personal opinion.
3. To respect one another’s right to disagree.
4. To disagree without being disagreeable.
5. To treat one another as fellow human beings and not as property or possessions.
6. To refrain from being intentionally unkind or unruly.
7. To call out the bullshit as well as the bullshitters.
8. To complement one another.
9. To build the community.
10. To help when you can.
11. To be open and frank in your communication with one another.
12. To ignore the trolls

With that being said, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between a mere simple failing and a CHARACTER flaw......

Liars, Cheaters and Thieves – these people have character flaws. I am not talking about someone who may, on occasion, exaggerate the truth (I shot that buck at 1500 yards….) rather those that intentionally misrepresent things for the purpose of deception.

Bullies, Abusers, Rapists, and anyone that would take personal advantage of their position at the expense of another human being, these people have character flaws.

Those with character flaws, when in action, violate my posted principles. As such, I challenge all “To call out the bullshit and the bullshitters”.

I do not claim to be perfect. I am outspoken, to be sure. I am often right, but trust me in that in the less than 1% of the time I make a mistake, it will be called out and I will take responsibility for my actions, words and deeds.

As Buckskin would say:

Originally Posted by Buckskin

Are we talking about any one particular?

I suspect the answer is yes and it is forthcoming..........


Respectfully submitted,

OldSarge

[Buckskin]

I'll start the popcorn. This should be good.
More then a six pack?

[Magically Muzed]

I am also sitting and waiting to see this unfold. Tons of skeletons have the potential of coming out if some high and mighty sociopath type personalities continue to attempt with engaging in accusational backstabbing.

[Whispers]

Skeletons in a closet typically have to do with someone's past.

What this is about is not the past but the present.

About activities today, yesterday, in the last few weeks and maybe a few months.

About actual behaviors in contrast with stated beliefs and principles in place today.

It will be very small minded people that think this community will be more interested in a discussion of what someone may or may not have done last year or the year before when it's really about what is going on here and now, involving people that are or were a part of this community today or yesterday.

[Magically Muzed]

I also agree with that last comment to a point.. If something/someone from the past comes up and launches many accusations that they once themselves were guilty of and intentionally avoid accountability but yet prefer to cast an agenda in the present time to benefit them and attempt to destruct someone's character now.. Not cool. Cowardly even.. That's my thought on the matter.

[Whispers]

Accusations in this matter are coming from me.

Based on personal relationships with a few guys and a lady and having spoke to a couple of other ladies at the request of the guys. There are PMs, Text Messages and Emails to support it all and two of the ladies have stated a willingness to speak to Mods as to the situation. This whole thing started rolling back in November.

You and I know who you are referring to. You should know that he is involved in this thread from the standpoint of being a long time friend to the person this is about. When all of this was set to come out back in December he was one of a few that basically spoke up as "Oh No. Never. That person could NEVER do that" . His was one of a few voices at the time that convinced me to not put it out there.

I brought all this to MODs after accumulating some data back in December and set it aside at the time as well. When i discussed this in recent days with MODS and messaged the owners...... the person you are suggesting may have at one time been just as guilty...... was not someone I had heard from since I spoke to him in December. I had no idea where he stood on the matter, Was he still standing with his friend? My first conversation with him since December was today but this was all started in motion yesterday. In all honesty though... Let's be fair..... No matter what ANYONE did or did not do sometime in the past... it is not him that has intimidated and scared a friend of mine.

Where does the Lady that was involved in this back in December stand? Both her and he had strongly disbelieved it. Both were upstanding members of the community.

I think they have to know at this point that their trust and beliefs were inaccurately placed in this matter.

That is kind of what this thread is about right now.

There is a story coming out that a few people already know..... that a few more already suspect..... and those people are all scratching their heads and trying to figure out where they stand.

At the end of the day though.... It is no one's accusations here outside of my own and that comes from a personal relationship with a lady that simply ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time..... Kind of a small world story that something that supposedly never happened would actually happen to someone I personally knew....

[Guest062716]

I have known Whispers on the boards for about 6 years. I have never met Whispers, other than to see his prolific posts, primarily in Austin. While he and I have not always agreed, as I said earlier, we have always respected one another.

I will say this, where Whispers and I are exaclty the same is this, neither of us makes a statement of fact, without the facts and balls to back it up.

I am indeed curious as to where this is going and where it ends.

Respectfully,

OldSarge

[JohnnyYanks]

To summarize:

OP has info/proof of Bad Behavior V Provider by well-known Hobbyist;
OP has decided to post a "teaser" threAD in multiple cities/sections;
OP has stated he intends to create a "story":

Deductions:

OP is taking himself a little bit too seriously;
OP is more interested in his "Rep" than anything else;
OP is perhaps more interested in shaming the "villain" of his story;

Curiosities:

What type of behavior is this being modeled here (is narcissistic adequate)?
Is this behavior an inevitable outcome for those immersed in the hobby over a prolonged time (note to self: Caution)?
Is there a grudge of some sort at the root of this?

Personal Decisions:

Abandon this threAD, immediately;
Spend decidedly less time reading Coed threads;
Go get a FBSM, immediately;

Post Script:

A certain multi-colored Hobbyist Poster may be the greatest beneficiary of the avalanche of scorn soon to be foisted upon of the villain of the OP's story (assuming he ultimately plans to reveal the villain). Perhaps his ML threAD will have a chance to die a quiet death due to the commotion and subsequent distraction?

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by OldSarge

I will say this, where Whispers and I are exaclty the same is this, neither of us makes a statement of fact, without the facts and balls to back it up.

No. Everything is being pulled together. Information is getting sent up the line of course through Mods to St. Chris.

The story is definitely coming but Like any good story teller I like to put all the pieces in place, let people think and ponder a bit, present another pice of it, think a little more.....

Then it becomes like a snowball rolling down hill picking up momentum on it's own. Lots of people are going to say. "I KNEW that was happening. DAMN!"

Posted in the manner I am choosing tends to bring a few extra facts to the table.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by JohnnyYanks

OP is perhaps more interested in shaming the "villain" of his story;

He should most definitely be ashamed. I think stubborness is getting in the way of doing what he has told at least two of us he intends to do. He's admitted to fucking up.

Is there a grudge of some sort at the root of this?

hmmm...... When I almost brought all this out in December it was simply about ALL information needed to make decisions being available to hobbyists as well as the abuse of someone's role in the community.

Considering now that a personal friend of mine became involved and subsequent attempts to intimidate her made by this person, I can admit to developing a bit of a grudge.

None of that changes the facts of what he has done.


A certain multi-colored Hobbyist Poster may be the greatest beneficiary of the avalanche of scorn soon to be foisted upon of the villain of the OP's story (assuming he ultimately plans to reveal the villain). Perhaps his ML threAD will have a chance to die a quiet death due to the commotion and subsequent distraction?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by your last paragraph. Feel free to PM or play it out here. In Private Quotes of course if it is info not readily available to those without access.

[Whispers]

Back towards the end of November early December time frame a member that that never posts yet sees a variety of young ladies including some of the strip club gals contacted me with a concern.

He had recently seen a young lady who's time he enjoyed and at the end of the session she picked up the donation and asked him if he could "tip" her. She explained that $100 went to her Manager and $50 to her Driver. He was surprised as he had PMd her based on an Independent Ad she had placed. He went from surprised to shocked when she named her Driver. It was “Prominent ECCIE Member”

The guy reporting all this is like some of you in that he does NOT want to contribute money to someone OTHER than the lady. It bothered him a lot.

The guy the lady named was a prominent member of the community that a lot of people respect and look up to. I will refer to him as “Prominent ECCIE Member”
He discussed this with a few others and more than one had noticed a trend in the posting and verification of New Providers. None seemed to know HOW they had received their Verified Provider Status yet they were appearing on the board, in the Welcome Wagon and posting Ads.


Another one of the recent addition girls was talked to and she had a similar story.
It seemed to them that the girls were not posting for themselves, responding to the PMs or even aware of the conversations they may have had with the guy. One reported she did not even know what an account on ECCIE was.


After some digging and asking questions the same guys name came up more than once. None of the guys or ladies involved at the time felt comfortable speaking out and had asked me what could be done.


I had a conversation with a lady here that has been around for a long time and was quite popular in her peer group. She called a guy that she knew was tied into a lot of information and eventually I spoke to him as well. BOTH were totally convinced that there was absolutely no way this guy could be involved with something like this.
Shilling girls for some “Pimp”?



Setting up accounts on ECCIE that either he or the “Pimp” controlled?
Driving Girls, taking money?


No Never, Not “Prominent ECCIE Member”


After speaking to a few different people, all with the same story on one side and the other side....all with the same level of disbelief I called the guy up that was at the center of the controversy.

“Prominent ECCIE Member” had a plausible and believable story at the time and agreed that EVERYTHING that was said to be happening was actually happening but he was not a part of it. He believed that he was being set up by a “Pimp” that WANTED his help that he had told NO to.

Hey. Stranger things have happened.


I was dealing with the Fundraiser and after speaking to the guys that originally brought it it was set aside.


But people kept talking.

So here is a summary of what has been going on pulled together from the pieces provided from a variety of sources as well as a lot of my own doing.


A “Pimp”, Manager, Agency”.. Whatever you want to call him, has been running ads on Craigslist soliciting ladies to come work for him making a shitload of cash. Nothing new or wrong here…..


After he screens them, gets some pictures, tells them all about what they can make he sets them up with a meeting with a “guy that is going to get them set up”….


Now the naïve young lady meets with “Prominent ECCIE Member” who tells her all about how he will look out for her, screen for her, set her up to make tons of cash etc…..



“Prominent ECCIE Member” of course needs to sample the goods and a session ensues, pictures are taken and when the lady asks about being paid….(that is why she is there) …. She is told that the sex session she just had with him is the “Price of Admission” to being on ECCIE……



Now she’s a real pro because she just got fucked twice right? Then again, probably not because she didn’t get paid.


So she heads home and “Prominent ECCIE Member” returns to his dwelling/office/lair and JOINS ECCIE on her behalf, sets up a showcase for her, posts in the Welcome Wagon and gets her started…..



AS PMs flood in and out he either responds to them himself or he guides her in the responses she should make. According to her, he did most of it.


He shares the passwords to the account with the “Pimp/Manager/Agency” so that business can be done and the lady can be watched after… watched?...



“Pimp/Manager/Agency” gets money, “Prominent ECCIE Member” gets free sex and maybe a little money, if he’s driving an additional cut …..


It is SUSPECTED that shill accounts were set up to generate reviews and boost the process and “Prominent ECCIE Member” of course promotes the heck out of the gal in her Welcome Wagon Post, review, via PM…. Who really knows how far as a lot of guys probably never post but he has their ears….


In at least one case “Prominent ECCIE Member” reviewed the lady himself. Let members believe that he had went and seen and paid her when in fact she was ripped off for the session due to her naivety.

Ok…. So up to this point I’m sure many of you are saying, Yeah? So? We’ve known this was going on for a while…You are describing a page from Marco's Playbook...... Why the fuck do you care?

Well… My decision to bring this forward comes after being contacted by a young lady several of us know and have enjoyed in the past when she was a local dancer. Everything up to this point involved people I knew but did not know overly well…..

She replied to one of these ads, showed up at a hotel, had sex with the guy and got stiffed for the fee….


Now this is a guy that would saddle up his high horse in defense of any lady that this happened to if it was posted.



He tends to be one of those absolutely perfect gentlemen that honor these gals and believe they should be treated like princesses…. At least that is the read I get after reading a lot of his posts as well as the way people talked about him in December…...


If one of us did something this reprehensible he would crucify us online and call for our heads on a platter.


Off he goes to set up the account and write her review…. Post her welcome wagon post and get the cash till to ringing.


The young lady sees some guys but has a bad taste in her mouth after what he has done and his demands for money or attention…… eventually seeing someone that tells her that ECCIE is actually open to anyone that wants to set up a profile.


She feels a bit foolish of course for being so taken…..



She tells “Prominent ECCIE Member” to take a hike and the “Pimp/Manager/Agency” Thanks but I’m going to do this on my own, and sets up a new account with the help of another member showing her the ropes and is back on track to being a success….. Her first review as a truly independent escort is a smash and the line starts to form…..


Here is where it gets a little more off kilter…… “Pimp/Manager/Agency” tells her fine and wishes her the best of luck and she is left with a decent feeling about that guy. He never told her anything inaccurate or caused her any grief.



“Prominent ECCIE Member” however will not let go. He texts and calls and she ignores him. I would have expected the opposite.


Eventually, after getting ignored, “Prominent ECCIE Member” emails her photos that were posted on her modeling website as well as pictures from her facebook page.

Little Smiley face as well as a note suggesting to her that she probably wanted those. He had taken her personal information and went on a safari for leverage….


Most people would immediately see that as a form of intimidation…..



She actually did not understand it but the texts and emails continued and he eventually tells her that “he wanted to get her attention” and persists stating his desire to see her again summarizing all he did for her.


AS this has progressed she has reached out to me for advice. She never took my initial advice but then again when she first asked she also did not tell me she had already gotten involved and was having some difficulty. My initial advice to her was to let me introduce her to a couple of girls I know that have already had positive as well as negative experiences with ECCIE that are currently UTR and they would help guide her. Personally…. I stay out of a woman’s “business”…. But I like this girl and want her to not only be a success but to be safe and who better to guide her than others with the experience and same concerns she would have?


Leading up to this point I’ve started back in with gathering information and then reach out to one of the guys former supporters, also someone known to be of high moral standards and an honorable man. His opinion in December was a strong guiding factor in my decision to let this go.

It seems however at this point, he has come to put most of this together for himself and was bothered by it enough that he had already reached out to someone I happened to be good friends with for some advice. He was already on the verge of bringing this forward himself.


I had already let Mods and Owners/Admin knows what I was seeing .


I decided to go a step further and had a conversation with the “Pimp/Manager/Agency” who has taken the position that although “Prominent ECCIE Member” DID actually work for/with him, that he was unaware of some of the things the guy was doing.



The one gal stated that when SHE told “Pimp/Manager/Agency” she was moving on for herself that he had no problems. It seems to make sense that he shouldn’t. There is no shortage of ladies that want to do this. So I can’t really lay any of this on the guy running a business.


I’ve also confronted “Prominent ECCIE Member” ……. Who has admitted that he fucked up going about something the wrong way….. He has not been willing to get specific obviously…… But there are a number of very simple facts that he has not denied, instead choosing to dance around the questions which are summarized as follows’


1) Did you meet with this lady at the request of “Pimp/Manager/Agency”?
2) When you fucked her and she expected a donation did you make a donation?
3) Or did you tell her the free sex was how she paid to join ECCIE?
4) Did you set up her ECCIE Account?
5) Did you post as her in the Welcome Wagon?
6) Did you read or answer PMs addressed to her by members of the community?
7) When she changed her password how did you immediately regain access to her account?
8) When she saw a member that you did not set her up with how did you know and why did you feel entitled to compensation?
9) Why have you continued to contact her and pressure her after she has told you she no longer wanted to work with you?
10) Why did you email her personal pictures from her modeling site and her Facebook?
11) How long have you been involved in schilling for “Pimp/Manager/Agency” and how many others have had the same experiences?

He hasn't really denied any of these and admitted to some but had an explanation that in some way, what he was doing by interjecting himself between the “Pimp/Manager/Agency” and the girl, was that he was somehow looking after them, and helping them. I’m not sure how the fee sex and Intimidation through intrusion into her personal life is a part of that but he seemed willing to try to spin it that way.

I have no problem with “Pimp/Manager/Agency”. He runs an ad, offers a service and seems to deliver on it…… On the surface all he appears to be doing that some of you don’t like is taking a girls money that they hand over to him of their own volition. I’m on record for years telling people to leave a lady to run her business any way she wants…..

In THIS case, from the information I have collected, I know of nothing “Pimp/Manager/Agency” has done to intimidate, control or manipulate anyone. Maybe others have that information. At the moment I do not. It does seem however to appear that “Prominent ECCIE Member” has done exactly that…

Another aspect of what “Prominent ECCIE Member” has done is that when we were put in contact back in December he became aware of who I am and what I do off the boards. He took my personal information and offered it up to a friend of his suggesting they should “deal with me”. He has not denied this either and the manner in which the other guy said that “Prominent ECCIE Member” told him he acquired it was accurate. Turns out that his "Friend" was more honorable than he was and brought it to my attention.

So along with the rest of the actions entailed above , “Prominent ECCIE Member” seems willing to share personal information he has acquired with at least one other suggesting someone should be outed.

Part of the waiting today has been for some third party information to be sent to a MOD for inclusion in information to be posted in the Staff Area.

That is supposed to be in the process now.

Another Part of the waiting today is that “Prominent ECCIE Member” had indicated he was going to remove himself in a manner from the community. So far that has not happened.

All of the above is a summation of information provided from other members of the community, both male and female, paraphrased at times where information was taken from texts, PMs or Emails. Is it all factual? I believe it to be a very accurate reflection of the behavior that has taken place. Unless a group of different members decided to go on a witch hunt and set this member up over a period of months, the story plays out as being accurate.

There is no Court of Law here. It's up to all to make their own decisions and I have no doubt he will have supporters. “Prominent ECCIE Member” has stated that he will not go quietly or alone.


For this story, the part of “Prominent ECCIE Member” has been played Ranchhand. The Killeen, Temple Bryan College Station Moderator.

A man entrusted to look out for members of the community.

[JohnnyYanks]

Bravo!

It seems you have done the community, ladies in particular, a great deal of good. Consider my previous complaint retracted.

As to the your final question in Post 12, think red and blue ink.

[cowboyfan2745]

Whispers, very nice play. Well done narrative.

Ranch, would you like to come out and take a bow for your part in this play or explain your part in all of this to the rest of the community?