Israeli Gen Z says enough of this. I ain't enlisting and I cannot support the cycle of violence and oppression of Palestinian people

[Supra]

A Gen Z Israeli explained why he's refusing to fight Hamas. Now Israel has sent him to military prison.

Finally someone gets it. I hope more kids like him stand up and say NO more violence and oppression against the Palestinian

The kid does have a point: "violence cannot solve the situation."


A Gen Z Israeli has been sent to prison for refusing to enlist in the military.

Tal Mitnick says he cannot support the cycle of violence and oppression of Palestinian people.

Mitnick will spend 30 days in prison before being screened once again.

A Gen Z Israeli is going to military prison after refusing to enlist in the country's military amid its war with Hamas, saying he won't be part of an 'eye for an eye' cycle of violence.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/gen-z-isra...163834719.html

[ICU 812]

I would not send him to prison.

In the years of my youth, the choice facing every young man over the age of 17 was Viet Nam . . . or Canada.

I would give this young man a similar choice, but instead of Canada, I'd offer him Iran.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

I would not send him to prison.

In the years of my youth, the choice facing every young man over the age of 17 was Viet Nam . . . or Canada.

I would give this young man a similar choice, but instead of Canada, I'd offer him Iran.

I strongly disagree.

[Supra]

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I strongly disagree.

Tiny, with what do you disagree? I was drafted in 1968. My choices were limited -- enter the military, leave the country, go to jail, or try to convince the military that I was a conscientious objecter to the war, which rarely worked.

I assume Tal Mitnick is being given the same choices. I probably share the same views on the war as Mitnick does but back when I was drafted many people had similar opinions about the war in VietNam. Unfortunately, opinions do not matter in such cases.

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I strongly disagree.

Well, the last two letters in ECCIE stand for Information Exchange. On tis forum we can disagree with each other about anything.

In the Amish culture, the young man would be shunned.

Maybe he should just lose his Israeli passport and citizenship.

[ICU 812]

In American history:

Thoreau refused to pay a federal tax in protest of the war with Mexico in 1848. He was arrested for failure to pay the tax and sat in jail. His friend, the poet Emmerson, came to see him and said, "Henry, why are you in there?" and Thoreau said, "Ralph, why are you not?'

Civil disobedience based on principle is something to be respected. But that respect is deserved or earned through accepting the consequences.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

In American history:

Thoreau refused to pay a federal tax in protest of the war with Mexico in 1848. He was arrested for failure to pay the tax and sat in jail. His friend, the poet Emmerson, came to see him and said, "Henry, why are you in there?" and Thoreau said, "Ralph, why are you not?'

Civil disobedience based on principle is something to be respected. But that respect is deserved or earned through accepting the consequences.

I strongly agree.

Will provide a lengthier reply to you and SpeedRacer later.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Tiny, with what do you disagree? I was drafted in 1968. My choices were limited -- enter the military, leave the country, go to jail, or try to convince the military that I was a conscientious objecter to the war, which rarely worked.

I assume Tal Mitnick is being given the same choices. I probably share the same views on the war as Mitnick does but back when I was drafted many people had similar opinions about the war in VietNam. Unfortunately, opinions do not matter in such cases.

they sent conscientious objectors to support roles like cooking for example.

there were some in world war II who refused to fight.

jailing them doesn't do any good.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Tiny, with what do you disagree? I was drafted in 1968. My choices were limited -- enter the military, leave the country, go to jail, or try to convince the military that I was a conscientious objecter to the war, which rarely worked.

I assume Tal Mitnick is being given the same choices. I probably share the same views on the war as Mitnick does but back when I was drafted many people had similar opinions about the war in VietNam. Unfortunately, opinions do not matter in such cases.

Originally Posted by ICU 812

Well, the last two letters in ECCIE stand for Information Exchange. On tis forum we can disagree with each other about anything.

In the Amish culture, the young man would be shunned.

Maybe he should just lose his Israeli passport and citizenship.

SpeedRacer and ICU,

Children account for 40% of the 20,000+ deaths in Gaza that have resulted so far from the Israeli incursion. Women and children account for 67%.

https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15503.doc.htm

The Israeli Likud Party and its coalition partners gave Qatar the green light to support Hamas, which channeled billions into Gaza, some part of which was used by the military wing of Hamas. The Israeli government's goal was to prevent the Palestinian Authority, which might support a permanent, peaceful two state solution, from gaining the upper hand over its rival Hamas.

Netanyahu's government and Hamas needed each other. Hamas was set on the destruction of Israel, while Netanyahu and his partners encouraged Jewish settlements on the West Bank. Netanyahu's coalition includes parties which represent Jewish settlers in Palestinian territory, and it wants to prevent a two state solution at all costs. A permanent state of hostility suits them both, and helps them achieve their political goals. If the other side is dead set on occupying your territory and/or exterminating you, then those people who support a peaceful, reasonable settlement stay out of power.

Well, a pox on both their houses.

This young man refused to be part of the slaughter of innocent women and children. I'm sure there are young men in Palestine as well who refused to be part of Hamas' slaughter, rape and kidnapping of innocent Israeli civilians.

SpeedRacer, If you believed 2/3rds of the people your government was killing in Vietnam were women and children, would you have contemplated going to jail or leaving the country? Yeah, when you're carpet bombing an area with 2000 pound bombs like Israel to target Hamas operatives, it's not quite as shocking as the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, but the results are the same.

[Jackie S]

Take it from me, when you are in Country, in a combat zone, the single most important thing on your mind is staying alive long enough to rotate out.

[ICU 812]

Tiny: There are no good choices for Isrel in this, only least-worst choices. If gnocide of the arqabs in Gazxa was their goal, then tyhey would all be dead already. However, the explicitly stated purpose and goal of Hamas is not just the elimination of Israel as a nation, it is the extermination of all Jews world wide.

That is an existential threat to all Jews as a people. That IS the definition of genocide.

[Bradscott]

This posting seems to be that the refusal to be drafted is a generation Z phenomena. It has been present as long as armies have present. Cassius Clay refused to go to Vietnam and hence Mohammed. Ali was born. Not wishing to fight has nothing to do with the country that drafts you or the generation you are in, it is something that has been with us since the beginning of armies. I am at a lost to understand why this was made an Israeli issue.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Tiny

SpeedRacer and ICU,

Children account for 40% of the 20,000+ deaths in Gaza that have resulted so far from the Israeli incursion. Women and children account for 67%.

https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15503.doc.htm

The Israeli Likud Party and its coalition partners gave Qatar the green light to support Hamas, which channeled billions into Gaza, some part of which was used by the military wing of Hamas. The Israeli government's goal was to prevent the Palestinian Authority, which might support a permanent, peaceful two state solution, from gaining the upper hand over its rival Hamas.

Netanyahu's government and Hamas needed each other. Hamas was set on the destruction of Israel, while Netanyahu and his partners encouraged Jewish settlements on the West Bank. Netanyahu's coalition includes parties which represent Jewish settlers in Palestinian territory, and it wants to prevent a two state solution at all costs. A permanent state of hostility suits them both, and helps them achieve their political goals. If the other side is dead set on occupying your territory and/or exterminating you, then those people who support a peaceful, reasonable settlement stay out of power.

Well, a pox on both their houses.

This young man refused to be part of the slaughter of innocent women and children. I'm sure there are young men in Palestine as well who refused to be part of Hamas' slaughter, rape and kidnapping of innocent Israeli civilians.

SpeedRacer, If you believed 2/3rds of the people your government was killing in Vietnam were women and children, would you have contemplated going to jail or leaving the country? Yeah, when you're carpet bombing an area with 2000 pound bombs like Israel to target Hamas operatives, it's not quite as shocking as the My Lai massacre in Vietnam, but the results are the same.

Tiny, it is not an easy choice. Again, in the scenario you describe, what are my choices? As Dilbert pointed out, even a CO can end up on the battlefield. Laws are laws and if we do not follow them we can be prosecuted, no matter whether we believe those laws to be fair or not.

[Bradscott]

Originally Posted by Tiny

SpeedRacer and ICU,

“Children account for 40% of the 20,000+ deaths in Gaza that have resulted so far from the Israeli incursion. Women and children account for 67%.

https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15503.doc.htm

The Israeli Likud Party and its coalition partners gave Qatar the green light to support Hamas, which channeled billions into Gaza, some part of which was used by the military wing of Hamas.”

Although you source a UN report, they are getting their data from hamas a terrorist organization . If Israel had that kind of disregard for citizens would they send in troops? They could’ve leveled all of Gaza without sending a single soldier in. They are putting in their troops in harms way to protect civilian lives. What is the real atrocity here is killing innocent civilians at music festival, or in their home with their children.
The suggestion that likud party has any relationship with Qatar is bizarre and totally unfounded. If you have information to this effect, you are probably the only human with it. maybe you got it from the same person who informed the world that Trump took pees on Russian escorts. maybe you should do some soul-searching to find out why you would believe such unfounded things and yes the Holocaust really did happen!