Is Chivalry Dead?

[Laurenspencer]

Modern society is in dispute over the value and role of chivalry ,or is it dead ?

Originally the medieval knights code of honour it today references a range of - usually male - behaviours. While some see these behaviours as the mindset of warmongers, glorifying violence and demeaning women, most see it as a courtesy and gentleness to women...

However ladies , Chivalry is NOT dead, it just looks different these days and because of its comparative rarity, it gets noticed.

Modern ‘Chivalric’ actions include: opening doors (especially car), matching the pace you eat to keep time with your date, suffering through a chick flick, an unexpected and thoughtful gift, walking on the outside of the pavement, putting your partners jacket on for them, offering your seat for an old man or a pregnant woman on a train, or plane, a thank you card (rather than a text) for a gift, calling when you say you will, checking you got home safe, paying the bill (though this is a social dilemma all of its own)...

All of the above though are what can be termed as a ‘checklist’ chivalric actions, and while indicators of lifelong chivalry, are not what chivalry is all about.


In retrospect

If we are going to make romantic relationships work, shouldn’t we focus on the similarities between men and women, rather than the differences? A man or woman who is willing to consider the welfare of others, to make small sacrifices and to find ways to express respect and trust on a regular basis is far more worthy of chivalric intention than someone who pulls out the stops on a first date to appear like a white knight or genteel damsel.

[Weatherman77]

Awesome info Lauren! I think I try to do all those things for women. I may not do some of them as well as I’d like, but I genuinely try to. I guess if you think with what’s inside your chest instead of with what’s inside your pants, you are able to form deeper, more trusting and caring relationships.

[swamptech]

Originally Posted by Laurenspencer

shouldn’t we focus on the similarities between men and women, rather than the differences?

no.
Why focus on the similarities? men and women are nowhere near the same nor do they hold the same values in relationships. At least not in those relationships that 'work'. We're probably saying the exact same thing here even though I'm suggesting I'm disagreeing.

Men should command from a position of strength, not neediness. Protecting/sheltering/nurturing his woman out of authority ("i'm not going to half ass anything involved with me....so i don't half-ass how I treat my woman"), rather than from a position of please, please, baby, please...

Women are a powerful force of feminine energy. Thank heavens they aren't dudes. They are fickle, they are desired, they possess the power of human life. They aren't macho, they aren't protectors or shelters (for adults). Women will NEVER be able to love as deeply as men can. None of this means women are 'weaker' in any sense. It means men should acknowledge what they should be bringing to the table in a relationship. It isn't going to be tit-for-tat, where the two of you rely on each other as emotional crutches in some dysfunctional codependent cycle.

Women are fire. In the right context they can warm, light, and feed you. If not given the proper environment, they can be snuffed out or allowed to burn everything to the ground. In a relationship, the man should provide the layout to protect the flame. Allow it enough room to breathe, provide the right boundaries so it doesn't go nuts. Stoke it, attend to it, so that it can fulfill its inherent role.
You'll hate this comparison but ever seen a dog owner that treats their pet like a spoiled child with no limits because they "love it"? Its one unsatisfied and agitated dog. Ever seen a dog given the right rewards and activities that let it do its natural tasks? they are the happiest most content spirits on the planet. Let a woman be a woman (by a man fulfilling his true role as leader of the relationship)

[Rochelle77]

I have met many fine gentleman here that absolutely still believe and practice chivalry. That being said, women need to also do their part to even warrant such behavior. Basically, be a lady in the streets and a freak in the bed and a man will do dang near anything for you��

#youattracthowyouact

[winn dixie]

Some women do not like to be patronized. Happens more than youd think.

[mwise]

It's hard to be chivalrous in today's society. Can't count how many times I've opened a door or stood aside as the electronic door opened and let a woman go in before me only to be met with attitude. Anything from, no response to "I don't need a man to open the door for me".
Cringe worthy really. I've actually said "YOUR WELCOME" when they are rude about it.
Swamptech:
I agree, basically your saying, don't put your woman on a pedestal. This was a problem in my marriage. I WAS the nice guy, trying to live up to the Disney rhetoric... know what it got me... no respect and a dead bedroom.
Not anymore... she even remarks from time to time... I'm never getting back on the pedestal am I. NOPE!
I also hate it when I see women comment that if you want more sex from your wife, do the dishes/laundry etc... such bs. I know some women that it's a turn on for... but I'd say most it's not. It's also been referred to as chore play, which has been determined by many to be bad for a relationship. Like a dog doing a trick you asked only to get a treat. Fuck that...

[swamptech]

best relationship advice?

YOU CAN BE REPLACED

It goes for both parties.

In the west, we are all raised on the Shakespearean trope of "man/woman= love forever". Every story, film, advertisement is beaten over our head that man + woman means they HAVE to be romantically involved and they are "the one" and it can never end.

Life is more like a Greek Tragedy. Be thankful for the contact you share with the one you have and treat it like its NOT going to last forever (you'll see that this only helps it grow). It may only last an hour....each experience only makes us that much more perfect for THE NEXT ONE

[mwise]

Swamptech:
Not only replaced, but with someone younger and prettier....

[Y Guy58]

I always open the door for my special lady, leave little notes to tell her I love her how good she looks. It was how I was raised and yes I have had women tell me when I open the door for them that they don't need a man for anything and I tell them that's probably why you don't have a man.

[swamptech]

Originally Posted by Laurenspencer

Originally the medieval knights code of honour it today references a range of - usually male - behaviours. While some see these behaviours as the mindset of warmongers, glorifying violence and demeaning women, most see it as a courtesy and gentleness to women...

Purpose-driven behavior
Ultimately what this boils down to is this....

• Protect the woman = nurture the children
• Child Development = Value the family
• Family Values = Solidarity in the community
• Community Solidarity = Nationalism

these actions are a reflection of your values. If you think relating to a woman is the same as a man and you're simply doing favors for one another, its turns into a trite transactional economy that you'll both resent. "Chivalrous" behavior towards women is celebrating her unique role as the possessor of feminine energy/life.
tl;dr - boys have penis, girls have vagina

[Baconman]

I guess to some extent Chivalry isn't apparent as it was when I was growing up. You can attribute that to more one parent raising kids alone. I was taught manners would be used to others or face the consequences. Simple as that. So I was taught to treat people how I want to be treated. I'm sorry if you're with me I'm opening the door for you. You can accept it or not but I did my part.

[Bubba_3000]

I think that is only half the problem, Bacon. Yes, one needs to be raised right, but be it modern feminism or our current and depressing liberal world order (don’t hate) chivalry is looked down upon as it is thought of as treating women less than equal. They often sneer when having the door held for them, look indignant when you offer to help, and distrust your motives on any attempt.

[mwise]

Originally Posted by Bubba_3000

I think that is only half the problem, Bacon. Yes, one needs to be raised right, but be it modern feminism or our current and depressing liberal world order (don’t hate) chivalry is looked down upon as it is thought of as treating women less than equal. They often sneer when having the door held for them, look indignant when you offer to help, and distrust your motives on any attempt.

DING DING DING....
I'm all for equal rights, pay etc... feminism used to be a good thing, but so many women AND men (Whiteknights) have tarnished it for sure.

[Baconman]

I'm not sure where White Knights fall into this conversation. Sure feminism is part of it. I guess I'm too simple for my own good. I've found out it's easier to be polite than rude. Causes me less headaches. I'm opening the damn door and let the chips fall where they fall. I've had very few people sneer at me for being polite and courteous. Can't say the same ratio for being rude.

[mwise]

Oh I'm still polite and courteous, pretty easy going etc...
What I meant when I said Whiteknight, imho, means a guy who erroneously validates a toxic woman's behavior. Usually with ulterior motives...