Dealing With The Opposite Sex

[Fast Gunn]

I think that all of us in dealing with life have had to confront the issue of dealing with the opposite sex and of course, be successful at it since successful relations are not exactly abundant in American life.

What are some of the lesser known tactics that you have learned in your own development to be successful with women or if you're a provider, with men.

I used to think that honesty was the number 1 key to good relationships, but discovered that even before you can get to honesty, you always seem to have to deal with dishonesty.

To start the ball, rolling, I will state my own tactics that I have learned after many a bitter lesson.

Life Lesson No. 1

People will deal with you dishonestly, if they can get away with it. Your job is to call them on it.

Life Lesson No. 2

The reason people give you for not doing or doing something is usually only a cover story or only a part of the real story.

. . . When did lying become so prevalent in American society or in the world for that matter?

[kymberlane]

Ive had a 3 year on again off again thing going on. And only when we both recently came clean and opened up about the lies we have been living and had been telling each other has the relationship began to grow deeper. We are truly best friends. So yes I see how dishonesty can lead to honesty--eventually. I dont know why I lied to him before, maybe we both had walls up and being honest would mean they had to be let down.

I deal with the opposite sex like with anyone in life, I sit back and observe. Watch, listen, and decide if that person is worth my effort, or if I should just walk away.

[Fast Gunn]

Dishonesty seems to be the rule in American life today.

. . . Honesty used to be the American way, but when exactly did we lose that and what caused the break-down?

[B.Wayne]

I think to an extent, that there has always been dishonesty...But, probably not as frequently as today's standards would indicate. I think in the past there were just more honest people than dishonest people. I would venture to guess that this derives from several things, but I can only speculate that it could be:

1. Not taking responsiblity-Lies may come in the form of making a mistake but not wanting to admit it to someone else to save face, or not get in trouble.

2. Acceptance-If more people accept that people lie and are dishonest, as long as it does not affect the dishonest person or the witness to dishonesty directly, a "who cares" attitude develops then becomes almost "normal".

3. Dishonest/lie to impress/detract others.

4. To see what they can get away with, and how far it can be taken until caught

Lastly, being dihonest just for the plain simple fact that it is viewed to that person as fun, or no real reason at at. I.E. "Just because" (bored)

Just my opinion. But there are still honest people out there, Although I don't know if they are not outnumbered by the dishonest. And perhaps there are different levels of dishonesty, or severeity?

[B.Wayne]

Oh, I forgot.

There is also a level of dishonesty to spare someone's feelings. A poplular example would be:
"Does this dress make me look fat?"

[Cpalmson]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

I think that all of us in dealing with life have had to confront the issue of dealing with the opposite sex and of course, be successful at it since successful relations are not exactly abundant in American life.

What are some of the lesser known tactics that you have learned in your own development to be successful with women or if you're a provider, with men.

I used to think that honesty was the number 1 key to good relationships, but discovered that even before you can get to honesty, you always seem to have to deal with dishonesty.

To start the ball, rolling, I will state my own tactics that I have learned after many a bitter lesson.

Life Lesson No. 1

People will deal with you dishonestly, if they can get away with it. Your job is to call them on it.

Life Lesson No. 2

The reason people give you for not doing or doing something is usually only a cover story or only a part of the real story.

. . . When did lying become so prevalent in American society or in the world for that matter?

I totally disagree with you on point #1. I think a vast majority of people deal honestly with each other on a daily basis. If everyone was the way you describe point one, the whole world would be populated with pathological liars. I think what we see today is that the minority of people who deal with others from a position of dishonesty is magnified by our culture that loves the titillating and scandalous behavior that is driven by a 24/7 news cycle and the invasion of the internet into our daily and personal lives.

As for point #2, I would agree with you to a certain extent. Everyone wants to make themselves look good and will put on a pretense that makes the look best. I wouldn't call it dishonest; more like pretentious.

Interesting that you bring up a topic on a hobby board in which you find dishonesty to be the biggest lesson learned. The whole premise of hobbying at one level or another is pretty much one of dishonesty for 90%+ of those involved. Clients are dishonest with their S.O.s or themselves by participating. Providers can be dishonest in a whole host of ways. The hobby is fraught with dishonesty-- whether we like it or not.

As for your the original question, I've learned that complicate communication is the key to successful relations. By this I mean that the message gets across and both people understand the message and it means the same to both people.

[awl4knot]

Originally Posted by Fast Gunn

Dishonesty seems to be the rule in American life today.

. . . Honesty used to be the American way, but when exactly did we lose that and what caused the break-down?

I'll be honest. This thread bores me. I always wonder what motivates people to post these grand thematic rants about the failures of American society. I suspect it's because some one of the opposite sex has done them wrong. So rather than talk about that personal slight, it is transformed into an issue of national if not global importance to avoid the inevitable "get over it" responses. Nope, you can't dodge that bullet: Get Over It.

And they are often based on idyllic notions of American history and character. Where can I learn about this golden age of American honesty because I never heard about it until I read this thread? You know, they didn't call Abe "honest" because he was the norm.

Eventually Diogenes put down his lamp and realized that his rant was futile. Let's do the same and go back to discussing how the Mayans got it all wrong.

[Fast Gunn]

That type of dishonesty falls under the category of "white lies" and is really the only type of dishonesty that has a moral foundation.

Personally, I have found myself compelled to tell white lies on occasion, but only when I could find no other option to extricate myself from a situation I did not want to be in.

. . . Sometimes, it's better not to make full disclosure than to be direct to spare someone's feelings, but in general, I believe that this world needs much more honesty than we show today.

Originally Posted by B.Wayne

Oh, I forgot.

There is also a level of dishonesty to spare someone's feelings. A poplular example would be:
"Does this dress make me look fat?"

[Guest121613]

Lying became more prevalent when pres clinton would sex with people who report to him, and he lied about it, and got away with.

[Guest121613]

Getting with opposite sex, read book "men are from mars, women from venus" the read barbara deangeles, who divorced the guy who wrote "men are from mars...". Both are relationship experts but obviously could not get along.

[Guest121613]

In the coorporate world, I challanged a bad administrator on ethics, and in time, was reasigned, but at least to better job. But the unethical person is still at their post.

[pyramider]

There is the same amount of dishonesty as there was before. We are more open with it and public figures have paparazzi following their every move in order to scoop the others. Would JFK survive the media scrutiny of today presidents? No. Could the great American industrialists of 100 years ago survive the regulations of today? Probably, but I doubt they would have amassed the fortunes they did 100 years ago.

Being in the hobby is a lie. People lying to SOs, friends, etc. But once you are in, the hobby tends to be more honest than the real world.

[Fast Gunn]

I did not know that, but it is mind boggling. When even the so-called experts have problems in dealing with the opposite sex then the problem must be even more rampant than it would appear.

Personally, I have always been brutally honest to the point that one hot girl I used to know once chided me about it saying there is such a thing as "too much honesty".

WTF?

Is there really such a thing?

I'm still trying to wrestle that one to the ground.

I was trying to hone in on the central problem society has with relationships in my thread, but maybe dishonesty is only a part of the larger problem.

. . . I remember reading somewhere that God gave us relatives so that we wouldn't have to fight with strangers. Funny in a way, but tragic in another.

Originally Posted by lostforkate

Getting with opposite sex, read book "men are from mars, women from venus" the read barbara deangeles, who divorced the guy who wrote "men are from mars...". Both are relationship experts but obviously could not get along.

[Guest121613]

Being totally honest is sometimes a 2 edged sword.

Edge 1 is that can require courage to be homest when it cuts against the grain of society.

Edge 2 is that it can be inapproptiate when descretion is required.

In dealing with my SO, and understanding women, is they want us to know want they want without asking for it. I think is common in a civie relationship, where emoitional jousting is an attempt at control.

The honesty discussion has tremendous depth.

[cny6969]

I have to say that eccie may be a strange place for an in depth discussion about honesty in relationships. I would have to think that a significant percentage of us on here are married and how many of us are honest about our hobbying activities. It's not like we kiss our wives goodbye in the morning and say have a great day and oh by the way I have a lunch date with my ATF.

I would say that your statistical sample would be rather skewed when using eccie as subjects.