Age of Majority, and legasl age to Vote?

[ICU 812]

This post ius not intended to be hobby related , politically motivated or o violate community standards.

There is now talk of lowering the voting age to 16. Setting aside any political discussion, it brings up wider questions.

In the eyes of constitutional law, statute law and the courts: What is the difference between "Age of Majority", "Age of consent" and the limits placed on adults for buying alcohol, tobacco and firearms?

What are the l concepts of adulthood, free agency and competency defined?

What, perhaps unintended, effects would come from dropping the voting age to 16 years old?

[Enchanterlingum]

Are you an adult when you are 18 and can legally sign a contract, enter the military, and vote? If so, why are you not able to purchase handguns, alcohol, and tobacco until you are 21? If you are not an adult at 18, why are you able to consent to sex or get married as young as 15-16 in some locales? Why can you not rent a car until you are 25?



I think we as a nation need to decide when adulthood is and assign full civil liberties and responsibilities to that age, full stop. You are either legally an adult and are responsible for yourself or your not and your parents are. It's bullshit that the government supports and perpetuates legal adults being infantalized until they are in their mid-20s. It is a control tactic and the age keeps getting higher.

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

This post ius not intended to be hobby related , politically motivated or o violate community standards.

There is now talk of lowering the voting age to 16. Setting aside any political discussion, it brings up wider questions.

In the eyes of constitutional law, statute law and the courts: What is the difference between "Age of Majority", "Age of consent" and the limits placed on adults for buying alcohol, tobacco and firearms?

What are the l concepts of adulthood, free agency and competency defined?

What, perhaps unintended, effects would come from dropping the voting age to 16 years old?

Sounds like mental masterbation!

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by Enchanterlingum

Are you an adult when you are 18 and can legally sign a contract, enter the military, and vote? If so, why are you not able to purchase handguns, alcohol, and tobacco until you are 21? If you are not an adult at 18, why are you able to consent to sex or get married as young as 15-16 in some locales?

Why can you not rent a car until you are 25?........

The brain doesn't fully develop until 22 or later.


By the way, you can purchase handguns under 21, just not at Dick's or Walmart anylonger. Hell, I purchased blasting powder at the local farm hardware store, and other explosives including blasing caps when I was 14 - no signature, no nothing. Today, things have changed. Things always change.

[Enchanterlingum]

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

The brain doesn't fully develop until 22 or later.

Correct. That is why you can be taken into the military at age 18. They don't want thinkers, they want children who will follow orders.

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

By the way, you can purchase handguns under 21, just not at Dick's or Walmart anylonger.

Incorrect. Federal law establishes the minimum age at which an FFL licensee can transfer a handgun or handgun ammunition as age 21. Citation is 18 USC 922 (b) (1).

[ICU 812]

This is larger than just alcohol, tobacco or firearms. In the case of the first two items, there is no constitutional protection. In the case of firearms, the second amendment is a specific or enumerated right. While I do understand, and may agree with, the rational for raising the age for firearms purchase to 21, I do not see how it can be legal for a state legislature to delay access to an enumerated right to anadult.

Going the other way; how can it be legal to grant the right to vote to a sub-adult? What are the ramifications for the age of consent? Can other rights be delayed until middle-age then? Can a 16 yer old be required to register for the draft?

What is the legal definition for Age of Majority and Age of Consent? Can any of the First Amendment rights be delayed beyond age 18 . . .or 21? What about the protections of the Forth and Fifth?

[Enchanterlingum]

Actually there is a constitutional protection for the federal interference with the purchase of alcohol and tobacco; the Tenth amendment. The authority has been usurped by and ceded to the federal government by the states in the interest of the states getting money from the federal government.

[Fizley]

Originally Posted by Enchanterlingum

Are you an adult when you are 18 and can legally sign a contract, enter the military, and vote? If so, why are you not able to purchase handguns, alcohol, and tobacco until you are 21? If you are not an adult at 18, why are you able to consent to sex or get married as young as 15-16 in some locales? Why can you not rent a car until you are 25?



I think we as a nation need to decide when adulthood is and assign full civil liberties and responsibilities to that age, full stop. You are either legally an adult and are responsible for yourself or your not and your parents are. It's bullshit that the government supports and perpetuates legal adults being infantalized until they are in their mid-20s. It is a control tactic and the age keeps getting higher.

We'll put and we'll thought out!

[yourdesire]

I agree pick a dang age. It's redicoulus @ the age of 17 Mo. says you're a legal adult yet parents are still held responsible for that 17yr. olds actions. I learned this as a foster parent. How can the gov. tell a 17 yr old they are legally an adult yet hold parents responsible when that child screws up. They can't sign a lease to get a place to live or any other legal contract. An 18 yr. old can put there life on the line in the military but can't sit & enjoy a cold drink that's pretty lame. IMO crazy thinking.

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by yourdesire

I agree pick a dang age. It's redicoulus @ the age of 17 Mo. says you're a legal adult yet parents are still held responsible for that 17yr. olds actions. I learned this as a foster parent. How can the gov. tell a 17 yr old they are legally an adult yet hold parents responsible when that child screws up. They can't sign a lease to get a place to live or any other legal contract. An 18 yr. old can put there life on the line in the military but can't sit & enjoy a cold drink that's pretty lame. IMO crazy thinking.

I returned from a short leave while in the USMC and, while waiting to catchup with my crew, drew a two day guard duty for a couple of AWOL trials. One kid had gone AWOL when he was 15: got homesick and went home to see his mom. He had lied about his age to get into the Marines. He turned 16 while home and when the MPs came to pick him up, his mother signed the papers allowing him to be in the military at 16; so, they brought him back to stand trial. I was one of the guards at his trial: this kid didn't know which end of the stick was up or down.

The worst part if this story was when we transported the prisoners back to the brig at Camp Pendleton. The brig was very secure: as we entered the brig the guards had one guy down on the floor naked, beating him with rubber hose and spraying him with cold water from a fire hose. This is not a made-up story, I saw it myself.

I don't think this kid was old enough to be in the military.

[RetiredSubmariner]

Our culture has developed so many specific ages at which young people can suddenly do things, it is confusing. Why is one age good for driving but another age for drinking?

When I was 18, each different state had different ages for drinking alcohol. It was weird, looking back on that era with friends it is hard to reconcile that we were all from the same nation.

Once I was in the Navy, suddenly I could drink in every state. Though often it meant that I could only drink on-base. My home state was California, so going home on leave when I was 18 meant that I could not drink at home, but I could go to the nearest base and I was able to drink there.

I also remember when I was 18 I decided to buy a black-powder revolver. The store had a modern revolver on the same shelf next to it, and the salesmen started to hand me the modern revolver. But my heart was set on the black-powder one so I corrected him. it was awkward.

I think that each time, some age limit is changed, it adds confusion into society. It keeps us unstable.

As for voting, I do not feel that 16 year olds have sufficient life experience to understand that their schools and the media have been force-feeding them a very specific slant.

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by RetiredSubmariner

....

As for voting, I do not feel that 16 year olds have sufficient life experience to understand that their schools and the media have been force-feeding them a very specific slant.

Agree, that is why the damn Dem. are trying go get younger naive voters without wisdom or judgement.

[Financeman22]

And why not let 12 yr olds buy beer & drive, not much difference in mature levels of 12 or 16 yr olds!!!

[Crock]

Originally Posted by Enchanterlingum

Incorrect. Federal law establishes the minimum age at which an FFL licensee can transfer a handgun or handgun ammunition as age 21. Citation is 18 USC 922 (b) (1).

Right now, you don't need an FFL for a gun sale unless the sale crosses state lines.

[JRLawrence]

A hand gun bought in Kansas is not sold to you until it is delivered in Missouri for an additional transfer fee. The Kansas Dealer has the handgun delivered to the Missouri dealer where you pickit up. So an FFL is not needed. A long gun can be purchased in Kansas by a Missouri resident. Some dealers will not do the transfer thing because it is additional work.

No license is required to own a gun, or purchase a gun. There are requirements for the state you reside in because it makes it easier to do the background check when you fill out the forms. You can also get a form to get a clearance before the purchase so that you don't have to wait for the three day period, if it does not clear immediately. I used to always get delayed clearance because of parts of my military record that were sealed records. It frustrated the hell out of the Feds. So I got the preclearance done, and now every purchase goes through immediately, just pay for the gun and leave.